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Post by kentuckykimmie on Jan 20, 2008 22:19:09 GMT -5
it really steams me up the way these pro-lifers picket around family planning clinics with these horrible magnified cut up baby posters in the first place. they all have but one goal, "save the baby". same goes for the crisis hot lines who take calls from scared young girls and frighten the life out of them to "save the baby". however, once they "save the baby", via talking someone out of an abortion, WHERE DO THEY GO? they NEVER keep in touch with the woman or girl after they "save the baby" they were so worried about.
i know there are a few who offer adoption referrals to agencies, but they don't do much for the pregnant woman unless she is willing to give up the baby they saved. if the pregnant woman doesn't want to give that baby up, she can just forget any form of support, financial or otherwise. i think that all of these people intent on "save the baby" should be legally liable to support the "saved baby" financially, if not outright adopt it, regardless of it's race or disability. i bet if a law like that were in place then women could get a lot more stressfree and picket free abortions IN PRIVATE, like any other medical procedure.
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Post by sweetnsour on Jan 21, 2008 7:31:27 GMT -5
A more accurate term to describe the activity is "pro-birth". This is why once the baby is born, many of the demonstrators are out of the picture. In a true "pro-life" campaign, the baby is not only born but supported througout life and not just through birth. The true measure of the effectiveness of a real pro-life campaign is how well the individuals who go on to give birth are supported and how many unwanted babies are`adopted into loving homes. It is simply not enough to facilitate the birth of a baby without having a real plan to support it after it's born.
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Post by midoria on Jan 21, 2008 10:44:44 GMT -5
The true measure of the effectiveness of a real pro-life campaign is how well the individuals who go on to give birth are supported and how many unwanted babies are`adopted into loving homes. It is simply not enough to facilitate the birth of a baby without having a real plan to support it after it's born. I agree. I was watching Morgan Spurlock’s “30 Days” and they put a pro-choice woman amidst strict pro-lifers. I was shocked at how, while they provided a home for the women and girls who had no place to go, they didn’t even prepare them for the birth. Needless to say they did nothing for the girls after they had their babies. The pro-choice woman diplomatically suggested that they consider creating a post-natal program that at least helps with adoption options, government assistance, childcare, etc and I agreed with her. |
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Post by kentuckykimmie on Jan 21, 2008 15:58:56 GMT -5
The true measure of the effectiveness of a real pro-life campaign is how well the individuals who go on to give birth are supported and how many unwanted babies are`adopted into loving homes. It is simply not enough to facilitate the birth of a baby without having a real plan to support it after it's born. I agree. I was watching Morgan Spurlock’s “30 Days” and they put a pro-choice woman amidst strict pro-lifers. I was shocked at how, while they provided a home for the women and girls who had no place to go, they didn’t even prepare them for the birth. Needless to say they did nothing for the girls after they had their babies. The pro-choice woman diplomatically suggested that they consider creating a post-natal program that at least helps with adoption options, government assistance, childcare, etc and I agreed with her. i agree completely about a post natal program. in fact, if this program offers a place for pregnant women to go at all, when they are'nt going to give the baby up, it's a lot better than what i have seen in the south where i have always lived. down here, at least from the ones i have heard about, girls who say they will willingly give up the baby for adoption get treated like queens, until they drop the baby. then they turn them out a few days later and pay for a 6 week check up, and that's about it. there is no help at all, which i am aware of, for the ones they convert from having an abortion to "save the baby" and decide to keep their babies. i am referring to the free housing, board, etc... of course there's always public assistance, but not much in the way of help from the pro-lifers, unless they give the child up for adoption. |
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Post by grayjedi on Jan 21, 2008 17:59:34 GMT -5
I was watching Morgan Spurlock’s “30 Days” and they put a pro-choice woman amidst strict pro-lifers. I was shocked at how, while they provided a home for the women and girls who had no place to go, they didn’t even prepare them for the birth. Needless to say they did nothing for the girls after they had their babies. The pro-choice woman diplomatically suggested that they consider creating a post-natal program that at least helps with adoption options, government assistance, childcare, etc and I agreed with her. I saw that episode also. What kills me, is that the people running the home seemed confused when the pro-choice woman brought up the idea of parenting classes, etc. Their entire business model seemed to be: find woman with an unplanned pregnancy, bring her in, show her a video on how abortion is EEEVVIIILL - and that's it. I like the term "pro-fetus" for the "pro-life" crowd... |
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Post by sweetnsour on Jan 21, 2008 20:24:50 GMT -5
I like the term "pro-fetus" for the "pro-life" crowd... [/quote]
The reason why I chose "pro-birth" as opposed to "pro-fetus" to describe the stance of the "pro-lifers" is so as to not minimize the life that is in the uterus. Fetus is a term used to describe the state prior to birth. I'm assuming that the intention of the thread was not to argue whether or not the fetus should be allowed to proceed to birth, but to establish that "pro-lifers" do not provide viable support and alternatives for the parents and babies once they are born.
The term "pro-life" suggests that any other stance does not support life. This is why I say that the essence of a real "pro-life" campaign includes not only "pro-birth" advocacy but advocacy for quality of life programs after birth.
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Post by preraph on Jan 21, 2008 20:57:07 GMT -5
I would imagine these rabid pro-lifers who are basically just trying to force their religious beliefs on others are not the best of parents themselves, so not shocked their agenda saw no further than making someone do what they would do, with no thought to practical matters.
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Post by kentuckykimmie on Jan 22, 2008 10:02:44 GMT -5
I would imagine these rabid pro-lifers who are basically just trying to force their religious beliefs on others are not the best of parents themselves, so not shocked their agenda saw no further than making someone do what they would do, with no thought to practical matters. OMG, THAT'S IT!!!!! it's the religious angle that gives them the smug satisfaction. where i live it's 80% Southern Baptists and the rest are fundamentalists of some sort excepting a small portion. i was raised Southern Baptist myself, the child of a church faculty member, so i truly have "insider information".  one thing that always caused me pause for thought, even as a child, is WHERE are the CHILDREN of the protesters? who is raising them while their mothers work full time in the picket lines and when they are'nt doing that are stuffing envelopes to mass mail congress? there was this one family in our church and i liked the man, he was actually a pretty nice person. ( probably a closet childfree man) they had four doorstep kids and were always awaiting another "gift from God". anyway, he worked like a dog at some factory on the grave yard shift and in his spare time worked odd jobs to support the family. that woman was ALWAYS picketing the newly built abortion clinic in town. actually, they performed abortions one day a week and the rest of the time they offered low cost medical care, but of course that went unnoticed and unappreciated. i always wondered where her children were and who was taking care of them as she was ALWAYS on some local news show talking about abortion, or holding rallies, or speaking to groups, or picketing itself. what about the children of the die hard picketers? |
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Post by preraph on Jan 22, 2008 13:45:45 GMT -5
Fanatics do not good parents make. Fanatacism is self-serving in the extreme.
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Post by ragdoll on Jan 22, 2008 19:16:40 GMT -5
I worked at an abortion clinic once. I was a counselor. Every day when I went to lunch I ran the gauntlet, and I always wore my lab coat so these idiots would know I was from the clinic. They would tell me to let Jesus into my heart or I was going to hell. I never once responded to them, and they never gave up. One day, one of the most well-known protesters brought her pregnant teenage daughter in. As counselors, we explored ALL options with our clients: abortion, adoption, and parenthood. I had assumed that the protester's daughter was trying to decide whether to adopt or parent but: she was there for an abortion! We asked the mom why she wanted her daughter to have an abortion when she herself was out protesting every day. The answer was that her family couldn't afford the shame of the daughter having an illegitimate child, it would embarrass them at church, etc. And she had the gall to claim that "our situation is different." When we asked the daughter what SHE wanted, she was very clear that she wanted an abortion, and that is what she got. The mom steered clear of the clinic for maybe a week, but then she was right back at it.  |
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Post by runnerchick on Jan 22, 2008 20:25:55 GMT -5
Quite personally, what a woman does with her body is none of my business. I believe in better programs for pregnant woman, I believe in adoption, I believe in giving women better access to contraception, I believe in forcing all insurance companies to offer contraception coverage and I also believe that all women should be able to go to their local pharmacy and acquire Plan B to prevent pregnancy but most of all, I believe that all women deserve the right to make their own reproductive choices. I don't believe that the anti-choice, we are all pro-life, have the right to scare and coerce women into continuing a pregnancy. It is wrong and unethical to have unlicensed personnel running ultra sound machines and giving pregnancy test results, yet this is what they do! It is also wrong to tell women that abortion and breast cancer are linked, when studies have shown that is false. It is wrong to show women pictures of what are supposed to be the results of abortion, when most of these pictures have been doctored or are the products of miscarriages/still births, yet these are things they do. Now I'm not saying that all anti-choice are bad people but the majority of the anti-choice community will do and/or say anything to see their agenda fulfilled and that agenda is birth at all costs, even if the cost is the mothers life. We are talking about people that think even if a girl/woman is raped by her own father, an abortion is still and always out of the question. Not all anti-choice are like this but many are and the ones that aren't should take issue with the fanatics, yet they don't!
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Post by runnerchick on Jan 22, 2008 20:29:05 GMT -5
I worked at an abortion clinic once. I was a counselor. Every day when I went to lunch I ran the gauntlet, and I always wore my lab coat so these idiots would know I was from the clinic. They would tell me to let Jesus into my heart or I was going to hell. I never once responded to them, and they never gave up. One day, one of the most well-known protesters brought her pregnant teenage daughter in. As counselors, we explored ALL options with our clients: abortion, adoption, and parenthood. I had assumed that the protester's daughter was trying to decide whether to adopt or parent but: she was there for an abortion! We asked the mom why she wanted her daughter to have an abortion when she herself was out protesting every day. The answer was that her family couldn't afford the shame of the daughter having an illegitimate child, it would embarrass them at church, etc. And she had the gall to claim that "our situation is different." When we asked the daughter what SHE wanted, she was very clear that she wanted an abortion, and that is what she got. The mom steered clear of the clinic for maybe a week, but then she was right back at it. A woman I work with was telling me a similar story that her friend, who works at an abortion clinic, told her. Apparently one of the protestors made an appt. for herself as she was pregnant. When asked about why she was doing this when she protested on a regular basis, she said she was not one of THOSE women, her problem was different. So she had the abortion and a few days later, she was right back out there again! Funny how choice is bad, downright evil, until they are the ones walking in those shoes! |
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Post by iluvbooks on Jan 22, 2008 20:47:08 GMT -5
To ragdoll: It's great that you did what you did--present ALL the options to this girl. That's what a reputable clinic worker would do. As for your experience with her, it happens more often than you think. Read this: www.prochoiceactionnetwork-canada.org/articles/anti-tales.shtmlIt's freedom for me, but not for thee. How typical. |
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Post by spanielmom on Jan 22, 2008 21:54:38 GMT -5
I worked at an abortion clinic once. I was a counselor. Every day when I went to lunch I ran the gauntlet, and I always wore my lab coat so these idiots would know I was from the clinic. They would tell me to let Jesus into my heart or I was going to hell. I never once responded to them, and they never gave up. One day, one of the most well-known protesters brought her pregnant teenage daughter in. As counselors, we explored ALL options with our clients: abortion, adoption, and parenthood. I had assumed that the protester's daughter was trying to decide whether to adopt or parent but: she was there for an abortion! We asked the mom why she wanted her daughter to have an abortion when she herself was out protesting every day. The answer was that her family couldn't afford the shame of the daughter having an illegitimate child, it would embarrass them at church, etc. And she had the gall to claim that "our situation is different." When we asked the daughter what SHE wanted, she was very clear that she wanted an abortion, and that is what she got. The mom steered clear of the clinic for maybe a week, but then she was right back at it. That is so hypocritical! I would have exposed them in front of all the picketers when they went back there. |
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Post by kentuckykimmie on Jan 23, 2008 15:41:24 GMT -5
the subject being brought up about the protesters getting abortions for themselves or their daughters made me think of another related topic that annoys me to no end. that is:
WOMEN WHO HAVE PREVIOUSLY ABORTED TURNED STAUNCH PROLIFERS
they give tearful "testimonies" to the horror of living with having "killed their baby", whine about the emotional terrors and endometriosis that caused their barreness because of the abortion, how they were "forced" into getting one by an insensitive parent, husband, or boyfriend, etc. etc. on and on ad nauseum. many of them have had multiple abortions. they blame everything from their current inability to conceive to their claustrophobia and allergies on their abortion.
i don't really know what motivates their sudden change of heart, other than perhaps misplaced guilt which they will forever try to redeem their innocence by switching teams. the bottom line is that THEY got to get rid of their fetus and need to move on out of the way for others to do the same. if they feel regretful of their choice then i think they need to live with that pain in private and leave the rest of the pregnant women alone to make their own choices without emotional blackmail at every turn.
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Post by preraph on Jan 23, 2008 15:58:22 GMT -5
I think it is their guilt and if they were religious, they may be trying to atone. Even that original person in Roe v. Wade turned into a prolifer! It was decades later though. Makes you wonder if someone paid her to do it.
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Post by iluvbooks on Jan 23, 2008 16:54:10 GMT -5
To kentuckykimmie: They do what you say they do because they're doing everything wrong. They're not using contraception to avoid more unwanted pregnancies, they're letting others make this decision for them, they tell the providers to just give them abortions without proper counseling first, and they don't follow the aftercare instructions given to them after the operation. Either they're dumb or they're just looking for an excuse to say, "See, abortion providers are greedy, evil, and incompetent people." Probably the latter.
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Post by happy2bchildfree on Jan 23, 2008 17:17:02 GMT -5
And what about the so-called "pro-lifers" who kill doctors who perform abortions? Apparently they see no value in those lives. Hypocrites.
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Post by preraph on Jan 23, 2008 17:50:20 GMT -5
I've been chomping at the bit to bring up Eric Rudolph, the guy who bombed a clinic and killed a doctor, I believe, a long time ago, and he went on the run out in the mountains and they were sure he was being given safe harbor by other religious extremists. And then he wasn't caught until they figured out he also did the Atlanta bombing of the Olympics. Make no mistake, the abortion war is a religious war -- but it is the rights of women that is the bigger issue that must be protected.
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Post by Karlita on Jan 23, 2008 18:33:38 GMT -5
Ever notice that the most staunch pro-lifers are always for the death penalty? Why is it not okay to terminate a pregnancy (NOT a human life yet) but it is okay to let that kid be born, grow up, commit a crime, get sent to death row and then kill him/her? I don't get it.
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one thing that always caused me pause for thought, even as a child, is WHERE are the CHILDREN of the protesters? who is raising them while their mothers work full time in the picket lines and when they are'nt doing that are stuffing envelopes to mass mail congress?
