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Post by juliepoo15 on Jul 19, 2008 16:46:59 GMT -5
Hi everyone, I'm new here...
So lately I've been thinking...I mean REALLY THINKING...about whether or not I want kids. It's starting to look like I really don't want them. My problem is my husband. He's 9 years older than me...gonna be 40 next year and it's starting to look like he wants at least one kid. I, on the other hand, have been coming to the realization that raising a child really isn't my thing. I enjoy my pets so much, they alleviate that womanly urge to "take care of something".
We talked about it some before we got married (we had a year together and a year engagement, not very long) and it was always a maybe... Lately he tells me it's okay, to take my time, but he really wants to be a father. *sigh* I've just kinda nodded my head...
I know, I'm very afraid to tell him... A few weeks ago was the last time he said it and that was when I'd tearily told him I didn't want kids. He started in with the ammunition...the "Oh, you'll be a great mom, look how well you do with your zoo of pets." and the dreaded, "I want a little girl that's just like you..." Oh and don't forget the, "I'll shape up and help more, don't worry.." Yea right.
So, this is my first step. Exploring. Then of course there will be therapy, nothing I'm not used to. I'm another one on drugs for anxiety and depression and have been going to therapy on and off since I was 12. It's in the family, both sides. Two of my cousins have it pretty bad. One of them is childless and living in Vegas with her hubby and chihuahuas. I guess another step would be to talk to her...
Anyway, I hope to get some feedback from you guys. This is something I'm really thinking about and it's not going to stop any time soon...
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mar
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Post by mar on Jul 19, 2008 19:09:20 GMT -5
Hi and welcome aboard !
Unlike you we never doubted that we would always be childfree. My hubby always knew the way I felt. I told him before we got married and it was never an issue.
We are passed the age where people ask "when are you going to have kids?" Our answer back then was " we've got three beautiful cats - they're our babies." They are long gone now (we still miss them) and don't have any pets now, or grand kids to babysit.
We're free to go away at the 'drop of a hat' (semi-retired) and ohhhh it is wonderful !
The financial part, stress, responsibility and inability to spend a great deal of time vacationing anywhere you please at any time, are just some of the reasons NOT to have kids.
Just remember it would be 18 yrs. and sometimes more, of the biggest responsibity of your life.
Your entire lifestyle would be changed to the extreme. But this will be your decision and yours alone. Don't let anyone talk you into something you're "NOT SURE OF".
Good luck and I wish you the best.
M..
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Post by preraph on Jul 19, 2008 21:26:45 GMT -5
I think you're going to have to just be firm about your decision . I can't believe that given your anxiety problems he wants to put you over the edge with a kid. It's so not going to be pretty.
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Post by kentuckykimmie on Jul 19, 2008 21:45:58 GMT -5
Julie, You will never be pressured any more by family, friends, hubby, and society in general, than you will be in your 30's, so brace yourself. They didn't pester me too much in my 20's. mainly just questions like, "so when are you guys planning on having a baby?" Then, when I was 30 I remarried to a man who had a 2 year old from a prior marriage and I figured I could handle it since I was signing up for every other weekend and the occasional half a holiday. Well, it didn't work out that way and through a series of unforseen events. his child ended up living with us full time from the age of about 6 or so ( and full legal custody at age 9) and there were several years where she visited her mother and that side of the family about once every three months for a day, possibly two. I NEVER got a break, it was a perpetual nightmare. I didn't divorce him until she was nearly 15 and I want you to know that while she was a good kid, being responsible for a kid was the WORST TIME OF MY LIFE. I lost years which I will never get back !!!!!! Worse though, was the numerous comments I got during that time, "You are such a great mother to Ashley, I KNOW you will make a great mom to your own", or "It won't be so hard when it's your own", or "Kids love you so so so much, you really should have at least one of your own....... ". Well, once I signed up and got stuck with this kid I resigned myself to treat her as best I could and make her life as good as possible, considering she had sorry biological parents. I did the soccer mom life, the room mother gig, the career day thing. sleep overs, etc......FOR HER, as I hated every single minute of every hour of it and I resented the lack of her father's involvement and the lack of support and involvement from her mother and that bunch. As a woman, if you have a kid or even take on the task of raising someone else's, you will be responsible for 90%, or more, of everything to do with it's care. Don't let empty( although they may be well intentioned) promises fool you. If you have a career, or own a business like I did, you will work yourself to a frazzle trying to make money and take care of the kid properly at the same time. Even the "cream of the crop" husbands like my sister has, will NOT do as much as you do and when they do anything, they call it "helping". I am "helping YOU', when I give the kids a bath. They are "helping out" when they put them to bed, or feed them, etc.......This is a societal thing which isn't likely to change in your lifetime. Some men have good intentions when they make the promise to be superdad, but I have never personally known ANY man who did anywhere near what the mother did in reality, even when she also held a full time job outside of the home. The really annoying part is they think they are doing their part, and this leads to more marital discontent than just about anything else. YOU will be blamed if the house is messy, not your husband. YOU will be blamed if the diaper bag is empty, not him. YOU will be held accountable if the juicy juice gets low, YOU will be the one to wake up in the middle of the night, it's YOUR fault if the kid is sick and/or YOUR responsibility to get it to the doctor, etc....... Then, later when they are older, it only gets worse. There are school bake sales, pta meetings, talent shows, music or art lessons, parent-teacher conferences, soccer practice, and they need money for something everytime you turn around. If you have a girl you are looking at clothes for this and that, "I need a haircut". "I need a prom dress", "I need new makeup", or on Sunday night at 11pm, they are out of tampons and need to you go to rite aid and get them some, or there is always the "forgotten" supplies needed for a school project due on Monday morning. Their dad can't go because he is asleep, or on a golf or gambling trip, or out with the boys at a sports pub. or worse, they use YOUR stuff and don't bother to mention it. Your makeup disappears, you find your new pajamas are on their body, you have no tampons when you need them, the $300 you had in your wallet to go shopping for yourself has dwindled to $75, because they "needed" this or that and daddy wasn't here, and you were asleep, etc...........They are hungry and there is "no food in the house", can I get a pizza? They are on the phone when you need it, in the bathroom with the door locked when you need in, they waste electricity by leaving their tv on all night or when they turn the air down to 50 degrees when they are hot. I can think of NOTHING good which would begin to outweigh the bad reasons which some of us should absolutely NOT have kids. ...and no, it is NOT different when they are "your own". Kids needs things, money, time, love, attention, food, etc.......regardless of who they belong to biologically. They will literally suck the life right out of you and I wouldn't recommend having them, unless you have a deep conviction that all of the bad is worth the potential good. I never had that conviction which may be why I am stubbornly childfree. I had a taste of living the childed life and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. NO THANKS to that thankless job. If you decide to have a kid (s), just make absolutely certain you are willing to make and are aware of the changes that will take place, and I wouldn't recommend trying to work full time outside of the home if you do have kids, like I did. BIG MISTAKE. If you continue with your career or job, you won't have it any easier at home. You will simply be working one paid job and one unpaid job, with no time for yourself. You will be tired, grouchy, won't eat or sleep properly, and THIS is the time when most husbands "want their wife back", and this will make you want to blow a gasket, or in my case you DO blow a gasket, many times. Then it will be said that you have changed, you are'nt the same person who used to have fun and was fun to be around. That's because you are filled with hate and resentment and are EXHAUSTED, which the husband can not understand. He believes you ENJOY being a mom, doesn't every woman? These are facts of life for most married women who are raising a child. Just look around you, ask questions, keep your eyes open and you will see it for yourself. It's not a pretty sight, in most cases.
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mar
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Post by mar on Jul 19, 2008 22:03:35 GMT -5
Julie ~
Take a sheet of paper and draw a line down the middle.....
Now make a heading on the top of each side... left side saying " Reasons I want to have a kid"; right side saying "Reasons I don't want to have a kid".
I bet I know which side will have the most reasons. (smiles)
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Post by nokidsplease87 on Jul 19, 2008 23:42:44 GMT -5
Julie, It sounds to me like you've already pretty well made up your mind; Its the telling him and dealing with his reaction that's the real issue. Which is completely understandable; Its one of those decision that really can either strengthen or destroy a relationship. It sounds to me like he's trying to push you in to it, whether he realizes he's doing it or not, and that's extremely unfair. He should have enough respect for you to be patient while you make your decision and then deal with that decision once its been made. If a child is really so important to him that he's willing to risk your relationship by pushing you towards something you don't want or you're not ready for, then he obviously doesn't value the relationship (at least not more than his 'need' to breed). And as those above me have stated, men who make promises about helping out with the kid(s) and all that are basically lying. No matter how good their intentions may be or the sincerity of their claims, it doesn't matter; YOU will be the one carry the majority of the burden of children. Kimmie has done a fantastic job of laying out what things will be like; Its an extremely accurate portrayal of the childed life. My advice (when you're sure and ready, of course) would be to sit him down and say "This is the bottom line: I am not having children.". (I've always preferred saying "I am not" as opposed to "I do not want", because with the latter phrasing people will easily delude themselves in to think that my mind can be changed. "I am not/will not" is much more no-nonsense and to the point, IMHO ) Then explain to him that he needs to make the decision whether or not he can live with that fact. He can either live with it and live his life happy, childless, with you, or he can go on his way and find someone who is willing to give him children. This is one of those situations where you need to focus on what's right FOR YOU. If you base it around thoughts like "he might leave me" or "I'll disappoint him" etc, then you are going to wind up in a much worse situation later, and you will be miserable. So focus on you and what you yourself really want in your life, and then let the chips fall where they may.
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Post by kentuckykimmie on Jul 20, 2008 0:17:55 GMT -5
I can not stress enough that what nokidsplease says right here is an absolute fact....... ...'And as those above me have stated, men who make promises about helping out with the kid(s) and all that are basically lying. No matter how good their intentions may be or the sincerity of their claims, it doesn't matter; YOU will be the one carry the majority of the burden of children........" Like I mentioned, my sister who has two kids ages 9 and 5, has one of the best husbands in the world and he has lofty intentions and is a good father. HOWEVER, he still thinks of things he does with and for their kids as "helping out". They planned it so she could be a stay at home mother and didn't have their first until she was 30. Before that she had a career in retail management so it was a big change, but she had thought it through and thought that he had. When her oldest was 5 and the other under a year, the pattern of his "helping out" finally took a toll on her. Sure, he went to work every day, but she made his breakfast and packed his lunch, did the laundry, dishes, all of the housework, shopping, bill paying, etc....AND 99% of all of the child care. She would be at home all day long with both of them and in her husband would cascade about 6pm, grab a glass of wine or a beer, and head outside on the deck to smoke and unwind. Then she would get the kids fed, get them their baths, make HIS dinner, and then get the kids to bed by about 9pm and would be completely exhausted. THEN her husband expected it to be "business as usual", in the sex department and want her to stay up until midnight spending time with him and hearing about his day. She tried talking to her husband, but he just did not "get it". I gave her my advice and she took it. I am happy to say it worked like a charm. She got a part time job in a retail store with the specific hours I suggested. Mon-wed 6pm-10pm, and on Saturday and Sunday from 1-6pm. I told her to pick up any extra hours they had on her off days too. She was worried she would get too tired and I told her not to worry, because I doubted she would have to work more than a few weeks, maybe a month or two at the most. This lasted TWO WEEKS. When HE had to make dinner, do bath and bedtime, laundry, and be pestered by them it all became crystal clear. Luckily, her husband is one of the kinds who would take care of his kids rather than let them do without. MANY men would have put them to bed dirty and perhaps with a twinkie for dinner, like my ex did when he was "in charge" of anything child related. Childcare is a difficult, all consuming, full time job which shouldn't be entered into lightly by either spouse. It takes a toll on the primary caregiver's health and well being, especially now that women are waiting until their 30's and 40's. Most men do not understand the concept of what is involved because their mothers did everything without complaint while their fathers did no more than punch a time clock. When you punch a time clock, your day is over. Your day is NEVER over when you are raising kids, never. You are like a fireman on duty and may have to slide down that pole at any given moment, only you get no days off and no pay. It takes a strong marriage and very strong communication skills and comprehension ( I stress comprehension), of who is responsible for what, and how the division of responsibility is to be played out. Otherwise, your marriage will suffer and sometimes the damage can not be repaired, as in my case. Think about that too because I am sure no one wishes to be a single parent, which is what I think ALL parents are, potentially. Even those who don't divorce because of all the problems which surface because of kids, it certainly puts a damper on the relationship that once was.
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Post by tinroofer on Jul 20, 2008 9:51:28 GMT -5
Julie, I was in the same boat as you. When we got married, the hubby wanted them and I figured I would just have them at some point (even though I really didn't want to) because it's just 'what you do' after you get married. You are told from the time you're a little girl, that this is the expected order of things. He started asking for a kid and I kept putting it off and putting it off. He told me HE wanted a kid by the time HE was 40. I said 'fine' I got 3 more years....bring it on. We have travelled and had some really good times. Well, now he's 39 and I made up my mind last year. I don't want them. I told him I will not be having them, that the decision is MADE and now it's time for him to make his - stay with me without kids or leave me to go get what he wants. He has stayed. Now I will preface this with the fact that I had a few major medical issues crop up in the last year - Multiple Sclerosis and an antibody problem that increases blood clots and miscarriage. Pregnancy would be a high risk, highly monitored, activity. He still talks about me having kids and he is sad. I am sad for him but not enough to give in to this emotional blackmail. He knows how I feel and I've made it abundantly clear that if he wants out of the marriage over THIS issue, it's fine by me. I do not want him to stay because of my illness if he'd rather go have kids. I've made that clear, too. So NOW - it's adoption. He asks about the possiblities of that now. I still say no. All you can do is speak up, lay your cards on the table and see what happens. Remember, silence is interpreted as compliance. That's men for you.
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mar
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Post by mar on Jul 20, 2008 10:20:24 GMT -5
tinroofer ----You have MS and he wants to adopt! I can't freakin' believe it . Does he not understand that having a kid around adds soooo much stress. You DO NOT need stress with that condition.
Need I say more ?
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Post by juliepoo15 on Jul 21, 2008 17:19:38 GMT -5
Hey guys,
Thanks SO MUCH for all of the wonderful feedback. Yes, Kimmie, I am well aware of all the things that I will have to do if we have a kid. The thought of all that drugery makes me ill. I mean, I had a pretty good childhood, my parents provided well for my brothers and I. But I also had a very depressing childhood in that I hated school and so many of my peers where such @ssholes. I really don't want to watch my child go through all of that pain.
So I had to bring it up to hubby again this weekend... Lemme tell ya, it was not pretty. We got through it, but it was kinda hellish... I ended up freaking hubby out pretty badly when I had that anxiety attack in the car. This was after he told me to go ahead and have the kid and he'd raise it. WHAT?! I couldn't even speak and the tears started rolling... That's my problem, I get SO HYSTERICAL sometimes...
After the fiasco of emotions that was this weekend, I am still left with the conclusion that kids aren't happening any time soon, if at all. I love my husband very much, but in all honesty, I'm not sure if this marriage is gonna make it. We have many things to work through and a couselor is probably going to enter the picture sooner or later. I also admit that I ignored many the red flag when it comes to my choice in a hubby. But I made my decision to marry him and I'm going to do all I can to make this marriage work. And if it doesn't? I'd rather have a shred of sanity left, and no children to support, thank you...
First thing to work on? My self worth. Hubby tells me I'm SO AMAZING in SO many ways and how on earth can I doubt myself like I do? Well...as you have all said, I don't think he's seeing the big picture here. He's very focused on the "script". The foresaken picket fence... So I'm gonna work on being confident in life and around hubby. I need to show him that I am able to make a decision and stick to it. If he don't like it, as painful as it is, he can lump it. I know he loves me, too...he did say, during all our up and down emotional fighting this weekend, that he would stay with me no matter what. However, those are just words. He could resent me terribly for it. But that is really his problem, now isn't it?
All I know is that my marriage, as it stands, IS NOT healthy enough to sustain a child. My gut is screaming NOOOO!!!!!!! So I will continue on with cofidence and work on my marriage, first and foremost. If kids never happen, I don't care. I really don't mind being the "weird aunt" with all the pets. I was always different anyway...
Thanks again, guys. I'll be back!
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mar
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Post by mar on Jul 21, 2008 20:43:10 GMT -5
Julie, actually it's really great being different IMO...
Sounds like you've got a lot to think about. Best of luck -whatever your decision. This is a great 'site' for support.
M...
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Post by kentuckykimmie on Jul 22, 2008 0:33:23 GMT -5
Julie, Don't feel bad about missing "red flags", as I missed plenty of them in my lifetime. I missed red flags and banners being flown in the skies! I also had a husband who said, "Just have the kid and I will do ALL of the child raising and you don't have to do anything". Ok, that sounds good on it's face, but has to be looked at realistically. First of all, they KNOW you won't just idly stand by and not lift a hand to feed, clothe, change diapers, console your crying baby, or anything else related to it's care. So, for them to say that is coercive, deceptive and it's an outright lie on their part as well as being trickery. That's no better than women who claim to be on the pill and "oops" their boyfriends into marriage, IMO. Secondly, I have never personally known ANY male who took care of his children without help, including men who have been widowed. Most of them remarry immediately or if they can afford it, they hire nannies and maids to replace their wives, which btw is what you generally become when you have kids only you don't get a salary. Look at famous TV show where there is a man raising kids and it mimics real life. My Three Sons had Uncle Charlie to cook, clean, and babysit. Mike Brady remarried and let Carol take over what all he couldn't get Alice to do before that. Family Affair had Mr. French to cook and clean, and the older sister Sissy babysat while Uncle Bill went on business trips and dates. In the movies and on TV, just like real life, society feels that men need and deserve help with their kids. However, mothers, even the ones who work full time, rarely get a break and no one seems concerned about that. How often do you hear people say when a father is very ill or dies, "I don't know what's going to happen to his kids", but let a mom get very ill or die, and the whole community comes to the man's aid with babysitting, housecleaning, and enough casseroles to put Stouffers to shame. Women do 90% of the feeding, bathing, raising, and caring for their kids and that is an absolute fact. It's expected by society, the family, AND the husband, regardless of what he might say. Oh sure, have that baby and take him up on his promise and have no part in the child care. I can hear it now; fights over how you can just stand by and do nothing, people saying there is something wrong with you, your child feeling like you don't love him, and an entire society who will openly express with great indignation at what a terrible person you are. No thanks, that's an existence I'd rather not live, and I don't know anyone who would enjoy that life.
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Post by midoria on Jul 23, 2008 9:51:28 GMT -5
I also admit that I ignored many the red flag when it comes to my choice in a hubby. But I made my decision to marry him and I'm going to do all I can to make this marriage work. And if it doesn't? I'd rather have a shred of sanity left, and no children to support, thank you... First thing to work on? My self worth. Hubby tells me I'm SO AMAZING in SO many ways and how on earth can I doubt myself like I do? Well...as you have all said, I don't think he's seeing the big picture here. He's very focused on the "script". The foresaken picket fence... So I'm gonna work on being confident in life and around hubby. I need to show him that I am able to make a decision and stick to it. If he don't like it, as painful as it is, he can lump it. I know he loves me, too...he did say, during all our up and down emotional fighting this weekend, that he would stay with me no matter what. However, those are just words. He could resent me terribly for it. But that is really his problem, now isn't it? Sister, I have been there too. Don't feel bad. But, as you said, you don't have to worry about working out a custody agreement since you don't have kids. I'd be in jail if I was ever forced to see my ex-husband again. My ex-fiance was the same way when it came to kids. He always told me I'd be a great mom, how wonderful it'd be to have a family, and how he'd help, etc. The man was a total romantic. But he was in the Navy and would be gone for weeks at a time, so already that was an issue. Plus, as wonderful as my Dad is, he didn't do much in the daily duty department. He'd write a check in a heartbeat, but getting him to pick me up from school or take me to the dentist was - like pulling teeth! I knew my ex-fiance would be the same.
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Post by preraph on Jul 23, 2008 13:03:30 GMT -5
Julie, I feel for you, but I think you know exactly what you're doing and that you're doing the right thing. AS IF being only the vessel to a kid but still having that kid under your roof would mean that it didn't totally change your life!@!!!@@ What an asinine thing for him to say. There would be no more time alone with your husband, and he'd be grumpy as a wounded bear and hating you ALL THE TIME. There is NO WAY the marriage would survive. He would eventually take the kid and go find a nursemaid for it. So he may as well do that now if that's his priority, in my opinion, painful as it is.
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Post by cnu5000 on Jul 28, 2008 6:09:41 GMT -5
Also I think society still expects much more from mothers. It truly amazes me what men can get away with and still be considered to be good fathers.
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Post by fencesitter on Jul 28, 2008 10:34:50 GMT -5
Julie,
Some of your story rings a bell for me. In my first marriage, my ex--who was 14 years older than me--could sense my growing unease and unhappiness in the relationship. All of the sudden he had a profound desire for us to have a child or two. I might be reading too much into it, but consider that your husband might (even subconsciously) be trying to ensure the "survival" of your marriage by tying you down with children.
It's been more than 18 years now, but I still remember it like it happened yesterday. My ex took me aside for a serious talk and explained with grave concern that I was looking so "haggard" (at the ripe old age of 26) and that I needed to cut back my work hours to part time and have children!!!! It was rather transparent that the only reason for trying to convince me to have a kid, was to put the brakes on my career and prevent me from ever leaving him.
It's unclear if that's what your husband is up to, but it's something to consider as well.
Just keep rereading KentuckyKimmie's reply #3. If only I had seen something with that message a few years ago, I wouldn't have spent a year as a "fencesitter." I don't think I've laughed that hard in a long time...she really says it like it is! Thank God for this website.
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Post by preraph on Jul 28, 2008 11:55:47 GMT -5
Jeez! Nothing makes you "look more haggard" than raising kids!!!!
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Post by fencesitter on Jul 28, 2008 12:36:43 GMT -5
It still makes me laugh all these years later! "Haggard"?...and he thought the "solution" was a kid or two? Really, what an ass he was, and that's putting it mildly . I have him to thank for never having wanted kids after that experience (except my last minute concerns as I turned 40...but thankfully all of you helped me work through that).
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Post by juliepoo15 on Jul 29, 2008 14:45:15 GMT -5
Thank you, fencesitter...that IS another thing to consider! After all we went through last weekend, we had to go to a stupid family get together this weekend. So there are all the cousins with all the kids and all the babies... Here we are, the "newlyweds". My cousin, who's house it was at, is pregnant with her third. She's 42 so they got invetro. She's also married to Mr. Moneybags and lives in a huge mansion with maids and nothing to do but reproduce. Then there's my other cousin's wife, who is pregnant with her FIFTH! And she's just the opposite...hubby works all the time so she's home with the four they have, day in and day out. Yea. TELL me about haggard! She certainly looked it!
And guess who I got THEE MOST ANNOYING question from?! The only childless woman there! She and her hubby are my brother and SIL friends, childless because of fertility issues. She's the last woman I expected to ask me "if I'm pregnant" yet. UGH. Then my mom tells me she's gotten the question from her friends and sisters several times.
This is gonna be an uphill battle all the way. I feel my husband is gonna keep trying to bring me around with his little quips and sh*t. He's gonna chip away at me. So far I'm just sticking with "Nothing's set in stone, honey, we'll see how it goes..." But that's like throwing a cup of water on a house fire.
You know what's terrible? I almost want to do the opposite of what most women do... I wanna have the doctor lie and say I'm unable. Hey! Maybe I'm not fertile! Maybe he's not! I just wanna get off this stupid "have a kid" hook! AAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!
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Post by tinroofer on Aug 3, 2008 11:59:09 GMT -5
Pffft! Even if you tell the whole 'famdamily' that you are unable, they will chime in about surrogates and adoption. They will want to know EXACTLY what is medically wrong so they can give 'expert' opinions. Usually prefaced with "I saw on the DiscoveryHealth channel..." If you state a medical reason, you can bet your next vacation they will look it up on the internet. You can deflect the question until you hit menopause or get all up in someone's grill. Doesn't matter. You will be talked about, pittied or seen as the vile harpy holding back his family's obvious outstanding genetic contributions. Dang... I just realized what a crappy mood I'm in today but all I've said still stands. In my experience anyway. Sorry, y'all.
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