back on the fence, please advise!

[nativenewyorker]

I thank God every day that we live in the era we live in, and not our parents' or grandparents' generations where women who chose married life & parenthood were "proper, acceptable ladies" and the women who were musicians/actresses were "harlots & unmarriageable."

H2B: I think it's quite an accomplishment to be a reptile breeder! I too am a big animal lover and animals are also my second love next to music/performing.

100 years ago, who knows, I probably would have succumbed to societal pressure and I would have been a miserable parent - trapped and resentful. I shudder when I think of how I would have lost my identity and probably would have given up my passion - music. Some women are happy being housewives & mommies but when I see the modern day mommy I gasp. They're exhausted, disheveled, eyes glazed & sad, sloppy-looking and all live vicariously through their children. .... To that I say: No thanks!

[happy2bchildfree]

Jan 24, 2009 10:54:42 GMT -5 nativenewyorker said:

& unmarriageable."

H2B: I think it's quite an accomplishment to be a reptile breeder! I too am a big animal lover and animals are also my second love next to music/performing.

100 years ago, who knows, I probably would have succumbed to societal pressure and I would have been a miserable parent - trapped and resentful. I shudder when I think of how I would have lost my identity and probably would have given up my passion - music. Some women are happy being housewives & mommies but when I see the modern day mommy I gasp. They're exhausted, disheveled, eyes glazed & sad, sloppy-looking and all live vicariously through their children. .... To that I say: No thanks!

Thanks for the compliment, NNY. I deal with people all the time who discount what I do, even though it involves a lot of detail, knowledge, time and work. There is also the unfortunate stereotypes of who "reptile people" are, which gets really tiring, and the sexism, which to me is downright demeaning.

But back to the subject--had I lived 100 years ago chances are I would have felt forced into motherhood because really, what other options did women have back then? Even marriage without children wasn't an option.

I've often wondered about the old bachelors and spinsters of past generations. I am guessing that at least some of them decided to forego marriage because they didn't want children, and marriage without children simply wasn't an option at that time.

[cnu5000]

I think it is unfortunate that so many women link work to high level careers. I think most forms of paid work exist because society sees some particular need for it. I think it is nice to be able to be financially independent rather than rely on someone else for money.

[happy2bchildfree]

Jan 26, 2009 7:20:45 GMT -5 cnu5000 said:

I think it is unfortunate that so many women link work to high level careers.

High-level careers and white-collar jobs are the only forms of work this society validates as being "worthwhile", and this seems to be true for both men and women. No one ever seems to consider that the lower-level jobs are important, too. Where would we be without store clerks, food service workers, truck drivers, production workers, etc?

Try telling someone that you didn't go to college and work at a blue-collar job and more often than not they will look down on you and regard you as an inferior and stupid person. Something I experienced countless times over the years. And yes, I AM both angry and bitter about it.

School kids are all pushed into going to college whether or not it's what they want or what they are suited for. Trade or technical school is considered a poor second educational choice even though many jobs learned in trade or technical programs pay more than some jobs which require a college degree, and are jobs which are very much needed in our society.

[cnu5000]

I admit-I grew up in a professional white collar enviroment. I work at a white collar job but it is not high level.

However, it gives me no end of frustration to hear that other jobs being downgraded. Also I think many people would prefer the skill trades to the professional careers-and many of these jobs can't be outsourced to Asia.

I also get very frustrated on people who are on psych disability who will only work at "interesting' jobs.

[tinroofer]

Wow H2G - You just brought a little memory back to me with that last post.

My family was blue collar and former military. After high school, I looked a 4 year schools and just decided it wasn't for me. I had to go back to the high school to get a transcript or something, I can't remember, anyway my English teacher was VERY disappointed in me for choosing ITT Tech and not a 4 year school. I mean she REALLY tried to make me feel like dirt. It was sad because I had really liked her.

I went to ITT and got an electronics engineering degree, got hired before I graduated (at 20 years old) and have had a good job for the last 12 years in the same place. The way I see it, I got right to the stuff I needed to know without distractions and a year of doing basics. Get in, get out, get on with it. I think there was only one other female in my ITT graduating class, too.

[aeon]

It's weird because all my life I have heard women talk about the sacrifices and that has been one of the main reasons I want to be CF... I am not big into making sacrifices and I don't want to resent my children for having opportunities that I have closed off for myself if that makes sense. Even if it's just taking art classes.

The thing is lately I don't see a lot of the women around me making sacrifices. I'm sure they do, but I just don't see it. Mind you I am aware that these are a small cross section of women, I live in a college town and the women I am talking about either work for the university, or their husbands do, or they graduated from it. (A lot of my friends never went to college, and I can't agree more with the above few postings about you do NOT need to go to college to be fulfilled or successful in life)

Anyway, I know lots of women who have kids and travel to/ live in Italy or other foreign countries, have jobs as scientists or doctors, or even are going back to school for PhD's! And some of them are not that wealthy either, they are mortgaged to the hilt (or so they tell me) and then carry around iPhones. I know that some people get themselves into serious debt but I don't know, maybe the women I know have some family money too.

My point is that I am annoyed and I know I shouldn't be. I feel like, if you decided to go for the joys of motherhood, great but you should be giving up something else, like travel or higher education or something. I know it's a weird and petty way to think and I don't know why I think it. I want to have something they don't! I think I mentioned it above, but extra sleep doesn't count in my book because eventually the kids get bigger and you get your sleep back.

thanks again for all your responses!

[preraph]

Oh, that IS annoying. I do have one friend who doesn't seem to make sacrifices, but that's becuase her husband is helping her. The others with kids are putting up with some compromises I couldn't live with to keep a roof over them and their kids.

[happy2bchildfree]

In any situation, what is seen from the outside looking in may be very different from the reality of the situation, and that may well be the case with the people in your reference. What you are seeing, and what they are telling you, may well not be truth. Often those with the most imperfect lives are the ones who put up the best appearances, in my experience.

[cnu5000]

Probably alot of these women have family money....Where I work all the women seem very stressed out with children. (I work in healthcare admin-for the number of women with chidren it is not a friendly enviromment).

Just remember with children there are alot of sleepless nights, worry and stress.

Also I notice that alot of women who seem to have it all collaspe when their children are grown. I think the tiredness sometimes takes a while to catch up to people