aeon
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Posts: 8
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Post by aeon on Jan 1, 2009 8:38:11 GMT -5
Hi all, I have been reading EVERYONE'S posts because I am back on the fence, and it finally dawned on me to share and get feedback! I have so many thoughts in my head, I will try to break it down or make more than one post, but here goes: I previously posted maybe a year or two ago my reasons for being cf, which were mainly medical and financial (the medical being struggling with depression and sleep problems, the financial being unable to hold down a full time job due to the medical). Miraculously, these things have resolved themselves somewhat. I am feeling healthier than I ever have due to better eating, exercise, and sleeping routines. Also I inherited some money after my mom passed away, and I have been able to patch together some well-paying per diem jobs so I have my own schedule. It's not like ALL my reasons for being CF have vanished. I know that it's very likely my depression will come back, and I don't want to pass this gene on to my children (it runs in my family). DH also has a mild anxiety disorder that is pretty well controlled most of the time, but his family is on the tightly wound side. Also we are not rolling in money, he works part time at a job that does not provide health benefits and part time for himself, the latter will probably be more lucrative in the future. But we are definitely more than able to get by. Another reason I did not/ don't want kids is that I work in mental health, and see so many dysfunctional families. Just train wreck after train wreck. Now that I have had a chance to step back and transition into more research jobs, I am seeing other families such as my sister's and my friends' who are not train wrecks, and they look like they are having fun. Which brings me to the reasons I am back on the fence. This may sound nuts, but partly it's Facebook!! A lot of my friends from high school and college are on there, and they constantly post pictures of their children and families. Of course the pictures are always of them doing cute and fun things, like dressing up and going to the pumpkin patch, etc, not having tantrums.... I know that it's skewed. But it actually seems to be fun, and having spent some time with my nephews, cousins, and other friends, I am starting to see WHY people would have them, I know it's a crapload of work and stress, but there are some positives. I also feel left out of life in general. It's like people with families are this club that I will never have membership to. Our friends in the neighborhood with children hang out together, go to the beach and on vacations together. they were friends before they had kids, but now it is cemented I feel. Also I see people's pictures on facebook of family reunions and family trips with cousins, and I feel envious. Our family does not do much together, (I have an older sister and a younger sister), after my mom died 3 years ago we only get together on holidays really. I make an effort to see them more and to see my cousins, but it often gets thwarted). I try to focus on the positive, and to have fun with kids on my own terms, such as visiting with my nephews when I can (they live 4 hours away) and I am thinking of joining Big Brothers Big Sisters. Also a big positive is the relationship with my DH, who is a fantastic person and committed to being CF (I demanded that we have a conversation before we got married so we could be reasonably certain we were on the same page). I am not going to ditch my fantastic marriage for a child. So here is the issue, I want to be CF but I don't want to torture myself with thoughts of regret, how it could have been if I had gotten my self together earlier in life, etc. Many of you on here seem to have known at an early age that you wanted to be CF and have never wavered, and I TRULY envy you for this. No matter how many times I point out to myself how great my life is and how chancy it is to have a kid, I can't seem to banish the what ifs, like what if I did somehow manage to have kids... and my life wasn't over! Conversely, what if something happened to my DH, I have put most of my emotional energy in one basket. I am very aware of this and have TRIED AS HARD AS I CAN to build relationships with my friends and family, but they either can't or won't reciprocate. OK that seems to be enough for now. I will add more info as needed, thanks in advance for listening and letting me "process" this. Let me know what your thoughts are and if you were ever on the fence, how you got yourselves off it!!
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mar
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Post by mar on Jan 1, 2009 11:01:46 GMT -5
[quote author=aeon board=fencesitters thread=1132 post=15615 time=1230817091 my reasons for being cf, which were mainly medical and financial (the medical being struggling with depression and sleep problems, the financial being unable to hold down a full time job due to the medical).
I am feeling healthier than I ever have due to better eating, exercise, and sleeping routines.
I know that it's very likely my depression will come back, and I don't want to pass this gene on to my children (it runs in my family). DH also has a mild anxiety disorder that is pretty well controlled most of the time, but his family is on the tightly wound side.
Another reason I did not/ don't want kids is that I work in mental health, and see so many dysfunctional families. Just train wreck after train wreck.
I am starting to see WHY people would have them, I know it's a crapload of work and stress, but there are some positives.
I also feel left out of life in general. It's like people with families are this club that I will never have membership to. Our friends in the neighborhood with children hang out together, go to the beach and on vacations together. they were friends before they had kids, but now it is cemented I feel.
I try to focus on the positive, and to have fun with kids on my own terms, such as visiting with my nephews when I can (they live 4 hours away) and I am thinking of joining Big Brothers Big Sisters. [/quote]
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1) Having a child will definately put a great stress on mental state. Many hours of sleep deprivation, and an unbelievable strain on finances will most certainly occur. You probably won't have a chance to eat properly or exercise - you'll be too busy looking after baby.
)2 Have you heard of post partum depression ? - It really does happen. And with a family history of depression on both sides of the family ~ YIKES !
)3 Train wrecks happen all the time - you said it.......
)4 A crapload of stress ~ YEAH, you said it.........
)5 Playing at the beach, etc. sure that's the happy times. You don't often see them when everyone is screaming at each other, which most likely happens more often than the "happy" times.
)6 Joining "big sisters" sounds like a much better idea - helping the poor kids whose parents have split because they couldn't handle the STRESS (mentally & phycically) AND FINANCIAL BURDEN after procreating.
BUT, how would I know ? Well, think I'll relax today and read a book, or hey, do whatever..............
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Post by midoria on Jan 1, 2009 20:59:41 GMT -5
I previously posted maybe a year or two ago my reasons for being cf, which were mainly medical and financial (the medical being struggling with depression and sleep problems, the financial being unable to hold down a full time job due to the medical). Miraculously, these things have resolved themselves somewhat. I am feeling healthier than I ever have due to better eating, exercise, and sleeping routines. Yes, but a child would totally set you back in this regard for at least 12/13 years. I'm sorry about your Mom. Re: Your job. What would happen if your depression came back? I battle with anxiety and depression as well, and I know what it's like to have a relapse. You know, there are times where I have a bad relapse (sleeping too much, overly emoting, irritable, etc.) and I literally thank GOD that I do not have kids to deal with. Some people say having kids helps their depression, but there are others that say that having children only makes things go down hill faster. For me, it's about not risking it. You just have to decide what you're willing to risk for children. Once again, it's all about risk. We can't control what our families end up doing or feeling about themselves or us. Being a rouge is often glamorized, but it's hard. You just have to decide if it's something you truly want or not. I'm thinking about doing the same thing when I'm done school. Great idea! *Hugs* I hope things work out for you, no matter which way they fall.
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Post by happy2bchildfree on Jan 1, 2009 22:59:40 GMT -5
I agree with what the others have said and can't really add anything to what's already been said.
Good luck with whatever you decide.
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Post by preraph on Jan 2, 2009 10:56:36 GMT -5
If you want a taste of what having kids is really like on a daily basis, why don't you pretend you have them for a month and see how it wears on you. Give yourself an imaginary family, say a newborn and a 5 year old. Set the alarm to go off every 2 or 3 hours at night and get up and stay up for 15 minutes or so to "feed and check on the baby." Call and find out when school enrollment is and all that stuff you have to do to get your kid in school, and get the schedule, and then start getting up in time to get your kid off to school. If you have to drive him, you and your husband work that out and actually get up and make a drive to the school each morning and each afternoon, making adjustments in your work schedules to do so.
Begin setting aside twice as much money for everyday expenses as you normally do into a separate account so you can see how your regular account does with the extra burden of child expenses. With real kids, you would have to go to shopping and buy all the baby stuff and clothes and school needs, so you need to actually go physically to the store and price all that stuff and then deduct it from your bank account. You will keep in mind that while you are doing that, you would actually have a baby and toddler in tow, which is hard to imagine, I know, and will be much easier than it really would be.
Be sure that at least once in that month, after your child is in school, you pretend to get a call from the school nurse or daycare telling you you must come pick up your child because they can't keep sick children. If only one parent is working, then you should pretend that the nonworking parent is out shopping or whatever and cannot be reached, and so the working parent receives the call and must deal with it with their supervisor to take off early. You need to begin cooking or providing all those extra meals kids must have, beginning with the early morning before school one, and you must have food ready when school is out and also of course have a plan for the working partner's meal once he/she is home from work, which isn't likely to happen at the same time as the kid getting out of school.
Once you have the school pickup routine ironed out, then you need to find out what activities your child should be in and get that schedule, because on those days, once again, your pickup schedule will have to change. So you may have it worked out to take your lunch late at work to pick your kid up, but now on Tuesdays and Thursdays, it's 2 hours later or 30 minutes earlier because your kid is in soccer and part of the time you feel you should attend the game. Remember you need to only spend your free time doing things kids an do, including the weekends.
Whoever stays home with the baby during the day has to keep the kids in eyeshot at all times. Kids can't be left in a room alone until they're quite a bit older. Stop watching any television that isn't kid-friendly, and don't count on them going to bed at 9 because most kids are going to fight bedtime enough to at least interrupt your adult viewing for an hour or two past bedtime.
You should go ahead and get two kid carriers and go through the motions of strapping and unstrapping those every time you get in and out of the car. When the working spouse comes home, you will have things you've been wanting to do all day but haven't been able to do, like take a shower or a nap, and you will want to meet your working spouse at the door asking if he/she can watch the kids for a half-hour so you can do this. Of course, this person will be tired and wishing to just be left alone for awhile, but these are things you have to negotiate on a daily basis when kids come first.
On a personal note, to me, the lack of sleep would be the deal breaker for me. I have trouble sleeping well anyway from sinuses and stuff. So having more sleep disturbances and then having to get up at dawn after a night of little sleep and then having no down time during the day because of constant vigilance on children is just not anything I'd ever be willing to do.
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aeon
New Member
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Post by aeon on Jan 4, 2009 20:01:46 GMT -5
Heh thanks for the responses everyone, preraph yours really made me laugh and CRINGE!!! Just to let you all know, it's not so much that I'm deciding, I guess it's more that I want to be validated for choosing not to have kids. That is why I like coming to these boards. It's just that I can see some of the benefits of having kids. I tend to see both sides of a lot of things, which sometimes leads me to be wishy washy and second guess myself. I kind of want reassurance that I won't regret my decision, and it doesn't mean I'll be any less connected to humanity, and that I will find a comfortable role in the world. I know that when it comes down to it, I'm the one who needs to validate myself, and I'm the one who has control over whether I regret things or not. But reading what you all post sure does help
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Post by preraph on Jan 4, 2009 20:34:06 GMT -5
Well, just playing devil's advocate for a moment, if it's something you really really want to do, then you will do it despite the many inconveniences -- and so you should. I only wanted one thing that badly in my life to give up everything else for it, which was my passion for working in music. When something is really right for you, there shouldn't be this much ambiguity. You just know when something is right. In the case of a dependent live breathing human burden -- I mean, "being" -- wiser to gamble on the side of not doing it than doing it, because there is no turning back.
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Post by limeygirl on Jan 7, 2009 4:55:04 GMT -5
It sounds like you are trying to fill an emotional gap. You long to be part of something and are afraid of being left on the sidelines. This is natural, but I'm sure there are many people with children who still feel this way. I do feel sorry for you, but the CF'ers always agree that its better to regret not having children, then to regret having had them.
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Post by cnu5000 on Jan 7, 2009 7:32:09 GMT -5
I think the decision not to have children gets a little easier as one gets older. I am getting to an age where many children are starting to leave home and these empty nesters get to lead lives that are more like child-free people.
Most people I know who have children like it when children leave home.
However, I am fortunate that I live in an area where a lot of people don't have children.
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Post by nativenewyorker on Jan 7, 2009 12:08:47 GMT -5
Preraph:
Thank you for posting your very illuminating post! All I can say is....EEEK!
I too teeter on the fence every now and then, but it's because of my frustration with being an outsider among my community, friends and family. But the daily reality of raising a child is 100 PERCENT something I do NOT want! In fact, just reading Preraph's daily rhetorical account makes me feel like I can't breathe.
I agree that if it's something a person wants, then the sacrifices are all worth it. I certainly sacrifice alot for my singing/performing activities - there's very little money made compared the efforts put in, I invest alot of time & money into study, I often work on holidays, I can't just call in sick to a performance. But to me, I personally wouldn't have it any other way. I guess that's how parents feel about having children. I just think that we CFers should not be persecuted & criticized for our choices.
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Post by preraph on Jan 7, 2009 12:48:04 GMT -5
A lot of parents do feel comfortable with making the sacrificies, which is basically turning your life over to someone else, but there are probably more who struggle with it. For a woman, there is much more loss of freedom than for the men.
As a small example, a friend of mine has traded putting up with her otherwise antisocial husband hanging out at strip bars because not only is he the only one working at this time (she's looking) but this way, he can't say anything when she wants to spend time out with her friends (he is antisocial and will not go with her). Obviously, this is not an ideal situation, but it is the kind of tradeoff that women end up making, which I believe MUST be hard on their self-esteem in the end. Right now, I am waiting to see if this woman is going with me Friday night or not, and I'm sure it will go right down to the line because she has to wait for her stubborn and controlling husband to let her know if he is on call to work or not so that he could watch the kids. In all liklihood, based on past history, he will avoid telling her until the day of and by then she will have either talked her mother into watching the kids or blown off going with me.
She is constantly waiting on or waiting for someone before she can do any small thing she wants to do -- but if you ask her, she would tell you she is very happy being a mother and "getting enough out of" being married to her toad -- I mean husband. This type of thing goes on literally every day with her. I simply could not live like that. Recently she went back to school for her teaching degree, no small feat, but hasn't been able to find employment. After spending a day with her, spent mostly on errands to pick up and shuffle the two kids around, I asked her how on earth she thought she was going to be able to work even if she got a teaching job. She didn't have the answer. I know she's working like mad trying to find as many apartment friends with kids to rely on as possible, and that is the only hope, of course. There will be that one poor overburdened mother who is too nice to say no to doing extra babysitting and pickup/delivery of everyone's kids, and a lot of people will lean on that person so they can eek out some tiny amount of childfree time in a day or be able to work.
It's such a struggle that you BETTER be passionate about kids, not just about not feeling left out, or it's all going to backfire on you. If you think people without kids are "left out," well, they may be derided and excluded from some things, but it's nothing compared to what all you miss once you have NO time of your own and every minute scheduled is about your kids or making a living. Then you're not just "left out," you are lost completely. If you don't find something rewarding in raising the kids, then you have nothing but a 24-hour job there's no escape from. So you better be sure you're passionate about kids.
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Post by nativenewyorker on Jan 8, 2009 22:09:59 GMT -5
"It's such a struggle that you BETTER be passionate about kids, not just about not feeling left out, or it's all going to backfire on you. If you think people without kids are "left out," well, they may be derided and excluded from some things, but it's nothing compared to what all you miss once you have NO time of your own and every minute scheduled is about your kids or making a living. Then you're not just "left out," you are lost completely. If you don't find something rewarding in raising the kids, then you have nothing but a 24-hour job there's no escape from. So you better be sure you're passionate about kids. "
That's why the thought of having kids makes me feel like I couldn't breathe - because I am not passionate about kids. At least, not enough to have one. And that, to me, would not be fair to an innocent child. A child deserves to be raised by someone who is passionate and 100 % gung-ho about raising him/her.
I feel guilty admitting that I am not passionate about the idea of kids - that in itself makes me feel like an outsider. But really, better to be an outsider, than trapped, unable to breathe or escape from something I'd be stuck with.
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Post by preraph on Jan 8, 2009 23:58:20 GMT -5
It's far better to know your limitations and what you want than to just let life happen to you. You know, I've had moments when I'm passionate about wanting to help a few kids, mostly older ones. I can get really fired up about that because I detest neglect and abuse and bullying. Over the years, there have been a handful of kids I've reached out to and kind of mentored. But I don't confuse that with having the passion to devote MY ENTIRE LIFE to caretaking, and that's what it is.
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Post by fencesitter on Jan 9, 2009 21:14:58 GMT -5
Aeon, I don't know if you live in a city where there is public transportation. If you do, I highly recommend finding a seat close to a family with young children. I read your post a day before riding the train this week and sat in front of a decidedly happy and balanced mother with a 3-year-old and a 1-year-old. As I sat there, I couldn't help thinking of you and how helpful it would be to observe a family in its daily life on a routine train ride. When children act up in a store or restaurant, the parents have the option of leaving, but on a train, not so much.
The children were adorable and the mother apparently content, but it sure gave me a sense of assurance at not having chosen the childed path. This woman was happy in a situation which for me would have been nothing but sheer misery. Her 3-year-old chatted pleasantly, but incessantly, and the 1-year-old cried on and off for the better part of the 45-minute ride (which seemed like an eternity to me).
Motherhood is not universally a miserable experience --as this very patient, unique woman proved-- but please try not to view the entire experience through the Kodak moments that you seem focused on, but rather try to notice the more common, everyday routine of childrearing (not so much a Kodak moment), and how you would feel in that situation.
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Post by nativenewyorker on Jan 10, 2009 12:12:34 GMT -5
This post brings to mind the mother of a voice student of mine. She is dear woman, a very kind and devoted mother and person. However, she lives vicariously through her children. Her teenage son, my voice student, is an aspiring actor. She homeschools him as well as her daughter and her days are spent shuttling her kid to appointments, lessons, rehearsals, and auditions.
Her every breathing second is devoted to planning his next move. Childrearing is not just her full-time job but her reason for being. Every word out of her mouth revolves around what she must do next for her son. He's a great kid, very grounded and polite, so she's obviously a great mother.
And so she comes in, week after week, with her son. She's always harried, out of breath, completely disheveled in appearance - I guess her schedule is too hectic that she can't even brush her hair or choose attractive clothes to wear. She seems very happy - not a life I personally would choose, but I guess it's all about personal choices.
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Post by serenity on Jan 20, 2009 19:25:55 GMT -5
Preraph, thanks for your excellent posts, and you look gorgeous in your picture! Aeon, I am in a similar place. It's hard when all your childhood friends on Facebook are having kids and posting their happy pics, but as the others said that's only a small part of parenting. It's amazing what years of socialization in American society will do to someone; I still often feel guilty about not really wanting kids, even though I know in my brain that being childfree is better for the environment and probably for my own health and sanity as well. I visited a girlfriend yesterday who has a 5-month old, and she spent two hours walking in circles around the living room, trying to get him to go to sleep. And that's her life. And when they're babies at least they're cute and innocent. They grow up though!
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Post by preraph on Jan 21, 2009 15:08:49 GMT -5
You know, when I see all that kid focus on people's web pages, Number 1, I think "What are they thinking?" because I'm a crime buff and --- WHAT ARE THEY THINKING advertising their kids on the WEB for every pedo in the world to see??? But Number 2, I don't really see them as happy pics. I see them as ALL THEY'VE GOT to focus on. I see it as kind of sad and in some cases, kind of a waste. I mean, this past 40 years is the first time in the history of man, tens of thousands of years at least, that women have had a choice to broaden their world. I'm not saying it can't be done with children and bravo if you have that much energy, because I don't, but to me, they're passing up the opportunity to make history and be a pioneer and to explore for the first time in history what ELSE women can do besides be caretakers. I just don't get it. I do know some people have a genuine natural affinity for children and thats' simply all they're built for, and that's fine (boring, but fine). But I think many more simply cave in to peer pressure and tradition and miss a wonderful opportunity to really reach their full potential.
And Serenity, thanks so much for the kind words and ego boost! I TOTALLY need that right now. TOTALLY.
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Post by happy2bchildfree on Jan 21, 2009 17:27:35 GMT -5
but to me, they're passing up the opportunity to make history and be a pioneer and to explore for the first time in history what ELSE women can do besides be caretakers. I just don't get it. I guess it's like me not being able to understand those who are willing to make huge sacrifices for a career. As someone who never had the slightest desire to make history, be a pioneer, etc. I can understand their not caring about doing those things. I admire women who do those things but it wasn't for me. Even though I never wanted children to be part of the equation for me, I can honestly say that I am perfectly content to be a wife and do my reptile business or if I didn't have the reptile business, to have some sort of pay-the-bills job. It's enough for me; I don't feel any need to prove anything to the rest of the world. I don't doubt that many of these women feel the same. And yeah, I've heard plenty about "not reaching my potential" and not "making a difference" in the world but it simply wasn't what I wanted to do with my life. I agree that at least some cave to pressure, tradition or whatever, but I also believe that there are plenty of women (and men!) who simply don't have lofty ambitions and never will.
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Post by preraph on Jan 21, 2009 20:37:36 GMT -5
To me, doing something else besides childrearing isn't lofty. It's just escaping the grind and doing what interests you. Like what interests you is reptiles. For some reason, you don't count that as doing something interesting, but it is. I guess you don't because people around you discount it. But I think doing things with animals is very interesting, and besides music, animals have been my other main focus as well.
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Post by happy2bchildfree on Jan 21, 2009 23:23:39 GMT -5
To me, doing something else besides childrearing isn't lofty. It's just escaping the grind and doing what interests you. Like what interests you is reptiles. For some reason, you don't count that as doing something interesting, but it is. I guess you don't because people around you discount it. But I think doing things with animals is very interesting, and besides music, animals have been my other main focus as well. Being a reptile breeder is interesting and rewarding to me, but I don't put it on a par with accomplishments like getting a college degree, or having a career which requires a lot of education, or doing something that will make a difference in the world. It just doesn't compare with those things. The responses I get from people when they find out what I do can be pretty interesting and range from fascination to outright repulsion.
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