Discuss Dr. Phil: "It's just not his thing"

[preraph]

i was watching a Dr. Phil about households in which women are the breadwinners, due to the economic/unemployment crisis we're having. All these women were having problems because the husbands were supposed to be doing the housework, kid stuff, etc. and all of them were just not doing anything they didn't want to do and calling the wives nags. Dr. Phil was making the case that because of eons of conditioning and roles, that housework just isn't a guy's thing, so they're just not comfortable at it, etc. He was basically saying the women should cut them some slack because of this. And of course, he doesn't think the woman should nag the guy to take out the trash or whatever and should just wait for him do it in his own time. The trouble is these guys weren't doing it, period, and it's clear Dr. Phil doesn't have to deal with all that or he'd know that the time to take the trash out isn't determined by the wife but by the trash. When it's full, it has to go out! OMG, I was getting so frustrated listening to this crap.

Hey, Dr. Phil, housework just isn't MY thing either. In fact, I don't know
any woman who enjoys housework and considers it "her thing."

You know, I like him more than I hate him, but when is he going to just stand up and face it: Most men think housework is beneath them, but they have no problem with their wife, who they are fond of saying they "take care of" doing the drudgery they would never stoop to do. Bottom line, these men do not respect what their wives do and do not ever want to have to do it, so they don't.

[kiddinla]

I'm kind of surprised that he said that; i always thought he was very fair, and tough towards slackers. Maybe his true opinion came out in the conversation. Work is work. Personally, i wouldn't feel good about myself if i couldn't make it easier for my wife who was out working; i'm with you pre.

[preraph]

Thanks, Kid. Well, he is fair on a number of subjects, but he likes to think that just because women have had this role for eons, that we ENJOY it, but most of us would gladly dump that given the opportunity. When I posted to his blog, I started by saying I hoped he was just trying to get a reaction because I'd hate to think he really thought women thought of housework as their "thing," and it's possible that is what he was doing. But it's not really like him to not reveal it at some point during the show if he is just playing devil's advocate.

In fairness, I do know these roles vary by location. I have a friend in California who swears it's not that bad there and men help more. But see, I'm in Texas, and the old stereotypes are alive and well. Men here, even if they DO help, don't want any of their friends to know it!

I have to say, though, I have a nice guy next door whose wife is a doctor, and he is a stay-at-home dad, and he is really really good at it, best I can tell (I don't go inside the house) but he does all sorts of great stuff with the kids outdoors, like building a chicken coop and caring for the chickens. He's made pets of them. And he had a big garden. It's the first man of this type I have EVER seen, and I think it's great, and he seems happy enough about it and not like he feels conspicuous or whatever. Good guy.

[happy2bchildfree]

Sept 7, 2009 22:25:58 GMT -5 preraph said:

In fairness, I do know these roles vary by location. I have a friend in California who swears it's not that bad there and men help more. But see, I'm in Texas, and the old stereotypes are alive and well.

That makes sense because I think people in some regions of the country are less likely in general to go along with "traditional" attitudes. From what I've heard, younger men are more likely to be willing to do their share than are older men, maybe because most of those men grew up with mothers who were in the workforce, whereas most older men grew up having a SAHM and traditional male/female roles. I think it also has to do with ethnic background as well.

Things are changing but I think it's going to be a while before men start doing an equal amount of household chores.

[kiddinla]

Suggestion: Keep this thread open for future episodes of dr. phil. The New season starts next week i think. I missed today's show, because of my afternoon nap; working in the sun will do that to you. I think it was about abusive kids. I like the intervention type stuff that he does, but when Robyn takes the stage for some b.s., i turn it off. Sorry if that offends you. I tune in for Dr. Phil, not Robyn. I stopped watching him for a while, and i forgot why. I think it was because of some ridiculous topics, and i just got frustrated with him. I'm sure that he'll have to have some hot topics in order to keep ratings up. I like Robyn, but for me, the less, the better. Is that a grammatical error? "the less, the better".

[blackrose]

My ex-husband was really bad about helping out. He was raised very traditionally, and seemed to think it my job. He went to school for 9 whole hours a week, while I worked a full week waiting tables, and he still didn't help. And he would get on my case all the time about "nagging him" because I would dare ask him to pick up his crisp packets, that he would leave strewn on the floor while he was playing on the computer. I always said I wouldn't have to nag him if he would just flipping do something! I have to say that while it's not the only reason he's my ex, it was definitely a contributing circumstance.

My fiance, on the other hand, is really good about doing his fair share. We both work full-time and we split the chores pretty much 50-50. Of course neither of us like doing it, and sometimes it gets pushed off more than it ought, but when the time comes to buckle down he's always ready to pull his weight.

Like you say, cleaning is not "my thing". I am not domestic at all - and my fiance actually cooks more often than I do. I hate cleaning, but it has to be done, and there's no reason at all why someone not working can't keep the house clean. Not his thing my foot.

[preraph]

I don't think it's fair, either, to say yard work is a man's thing, or that yard work somehow equates to housework. For some people, they do sort of enjoy yard work, and yard work is generally only a weekly thing, at most. For others, it's a terrible chore. Me, I ran my riding mower up a clothesline pole and ruined a nerve in my leg, so I'm not up for that part of it, but don't mind getting my hands in the dirt.

And as for housework, I don't mind laundry, as long as I don't have to fold clothes (I hang them). I don't really mind keeping the kitchen reasonably under control. But I just won't do the floors throughout the house, because it would leave me no energy for anything else. I just try not to dirty things up and have a cleaner in every couple of months. If it weren't for the dogs and their hairballs, I could keep the floors from getting very dirty, but....

I don't see why anyone would use their day off mowing the lawn when it only costs $25 to get someone else to do it for you. I'm self-employed, and to me it's just not worth spending hours on something to save a few bucks when I could be working and more than pay for it instead and not be doing something I hate doing.

[preraph]

Kidd, I like your suggestion about keeping this thread alive as an ongoing Dr. Phil thread. I watch it regularly myself, although it is usually a day or two later, because I tape everything.

[blackrose]

"I don't think it's fair, either, to say yard work is a man's thing, or that yard work somehow equates to housework. For some people, they do sort of enjoy yard work, and yard work is generally only a weekly thing, at most."

This always irritated me about my mother and father's dynamic. Even though both worked full-time, it was considered her job (our job - her and me and my sister) to do the housework, whereas my dad did the yardwork. Of course, since we have a little spit of a lawn this usually entailed about an hour mowing once a month, as well as balancing the chemicals in the pool, and cleaning the leaves out of the pool - which he would do while being in the pool.

So he'd do a few hours of work once a month for 3-4 months, and this somehow balanced out year-round house work. (I usually ended up helping with the yard work as well, and taking out the trash. I always sort of got the stereotypical "boys chores" while my elder sister got the "girls chores" like doing the dishes. Except some how I ended up with the bathroom... My mom used to joke that they had kids so that they wouldn't have to clean anymore. Sometimes I half believe her.)

Anyway, I'm glad to split the chores in my own house, but I hated doing it when I lived with my parents.

[preraph]

I don't think kids should have to do too many chores. I think they should be taught how, for the future, and they should have to clean their room and be taught not to leave stuff laying around, but I don't think they should have to go to school full-time and then have to spend off time working around the house. I only knew one family who did that growing up, and I liked them, but their daughter didn't know what it was to play and use her imagination because she had too many adult duties.

Well, the thing about yardwork is that it's seasonal most parts of the country. So if that's the man's only chore, then he has at least half the year off. When does the woman get off? Never. Watching how all this worked in my household growing up made me determined NEVER to get into the domestic trap. And I haven't.

[hockeygrl6]

I'm watching the Dr. Phil ep now where women are obsessed with having babies. From what the husbands are saying I don't get the impression that these guys truly want more. The first guy has two teenagers from his first marriage while the other two guys have one child each with their wives. The guys keep saying they want to give her what "she" wants. To me, it should be what they BOTH want. The first woman seems so completely miserable and they all let babies consume their whole lives. At one point Dr. Phil says something about being happy with what you have now. I think these woman should listen to that!

[kiddinla]

I happened to see a preview clip where dr. phil said "the best gift you could give your wife", and then it cut out, so you'd have to tune in. I figured that he was gonna try to talk the men into having a baby, but if he said "be happy with what you have", that's good advice. Maybe i should have watched it to get the full story.

[preraph]

I am taping that show. I am pretty sure Dr. Phil will recognize the most frantic of these women as the obsessive/compulsives they are but take a neutral stance on whether people have children or not in general.

[hockeygrl6]

Sept 9, 2009 16:15:54 GMT -5 kiddinla said:

I happened to see a preview clip where dr. phil said "the best gift you could give your wife", and then it cut out, so you'd have to tune in. I figured that he was gonna try to talk the men into having a baby, but if he said "be happy with what you have", that's good advice. Maybe i should have watched it to get the full story.

While he did tell the third couple they should be happy with what they have, he often emphasized children being the best gift a husband could give to his wife. I was quite disappointed with most of it. At the end, the husband of the first couple (the one where the husband already had 2 teenagers) pretty much gave in and said he would try for another child (he even had his vasectomy reversed for her and some other medical procedure done to make her happy). Basically, it sounded like all these guys were pressured into having another child to appease the wife. I thought it was pretty sad.

[preraph]

I know. If having kids is SUCH A PRIORITY with these women, WHY did they marry an ambivalent man to begin with? People can be so STUPID!

[cnu5000]

I am in Massachusetts-the general wisdom here seems to be-that men do more housework then they used to but it is still not fifty-fifty. My husband does more than he used to around houehold chores.

However, it still seems to be an adjustment to people here that I work longer hours than he does and what we can do as a couple is more limited by more work hours than his.

[preraph]

Well, I hope that trend moves southward!

[preraph]

A couple of days ago on Dr. Phil, the show discussed a couple of incidents where strangers gave other people's kids a whuppin. I don't agree with doing that, and no one else did, but what was shocking is how violent Robin, Dr. Phil's wife, got on the subject, saying she'd literally grab whatever there was nearby and kill the person. Then she ALSO said that she would do pretty much the same thing if they just said something to HER about her misbehaving child. Now, that is ridiculous. Of course, I realize Robin probably would never let her kids just go nuts in public and ignore it, but it is not out of line for people to react when a person is not taking care of a loud or chaotic situation with their child. Why is it that "it takes a village" is on the tongue of every mother needing babysitters but they forget all about it when they're at Wal-Mart and their kid is screeching gratuitously and they do nothing about it? It is totally natural in nature for other herd and pack members to stop anyone in the group from extreme chaotic behavior, so I don't see why it's so off-limits to say something to the ignorant and lazy mother who isn't lifting a finger to teach her child enough social graces that she doesn't offend the rest of the population out in public.

[preraph]

Also on Dr. Phil this past week, a woman who agreed her husband should have primary custody of her kids. She had written a book, also, because she lost a child to some chronic illness, and it was after this that she and the husband decided to divorce (as so often happens) and they decided it would be best if he retained the house and primary custody, but she still saw the kids all summer every summer, plus every weekend, and they had a casual agreement, so she also saw them through the week. In short, it was like nearly every father's custody agreement, but it was the woman instead.

You cannot believe how much criticism she got for this! What a double standard! Her kids, older girls now, made a statement and were just laughing at the outrage everyone had thrown at their mother and told them to leave her alone, that she was a good mother and great role model. Still, everyone thought it was heinous that he had primary custody, and acted like she abandoned them, which she did not. It was ridiculous to see how strong the double standard still is.

I am trying to get on Dr. Phil board but it won't let me right now. But what I want to know is: How is her sharing custody any different than what I would say is a healthy percentage of young mothers who dump their kids on their parents, on their siblings, on their neighbors, on anyone who will sit still for it? They aren't around them any more than this mother is or the average dad is. She is STILL spending more time with them than most dads in an intact family who works all the time and does his own thing on weekends, etc. I just get so mad at this attitude that women must exclusively devote the rest of their lives to childrearing. Grrrr.

[danisty]

Sept 27, 2009 10:38:13 GMT -5 preraph said:

A couple of days ago on Dr. Phil, the show discussed a couple of incidents where strangers gave other people's kids a whuppin. I don't agree with doing that, and no one else did, but what was shocking is how violent Robin, Dr. Phil's wife, got on the subject, saying she'd literally grab whatever there was nearby and kill the person. Then she ALSO said that she would do pretty much the same thing if they just said something to HER about her misbehaving child. Now, that is ridiculous. Of course, I realize Robin probably would never let her kids just go nuts in public and ignore it, but it is not out of line for people to react when a person is not taking care of a loud or chaotic situation with their child. Why is it that "it takes a village" is on the tongue of every mother needing babysitters but they forget all about it when they're at Wal-Mart and their kid is screeching gratuitously and they do nothing about it? It is totally natural in nature for other herd and pack members to stop anyone in the group from extreme chaotic behavior, so I don't see why it's so off-limits to say something to the ignorant and lazy mother who isn't lifting a finger to teach her child enough social graces that she doesn't offend the rest of the population out in public.

Oh this came up not long ago on the military forum I'm on. All of these people were saying it's assault to physically discipline someone else's kid, yet they were ranting about how THEY would assault anyone who did it. I'm all the time hearing about how "nobody better tell me how to parent my child." I brought up that whole village issue and they all responded that they don't want a village to raise their child. Whatever. You know when they're in trouble, they're gonna ask for help.

Sept 27, 2009 11:15:51 GMT -5 preraph said:

Also on Dr. Phil this past week, a woman who agreed her husband should have primary custody of her kids. She had written a book, also, because she lost a child to some chronic illness, and it was after this that she and the husband decided to divorce (as so often happens) and they decided it would be best if he retained the house and primary custody, but she still saw the kids all summer every summer, plus every weekend, and they had a casual agreement, so she also saw them through the week. In short, it was like nearly every father's custody agreement, but it was the woman instead.

You cannot believe how much criticism she got for this! What a double standard! Her kids, older girls now, made a statement and were just laughing at the outrage everyone had thrown at their mother and told them to leave her alone, that she was a good mother and great role model. Still, everyone thought it was heinous that he had primary custody, and acted like she abandoned them, which she did not. It was ridiculous to see how strong the double standard still is.

I am trying to get on Dr. Phil board but it won't let me right now. But what I want to know is: How is her sharing custody any different than what I would say is a healthy percentage of young mothers who dump their kids on their parents, on their siblings, on their neighbors, on anyone who will sit still for it? They aren't around them any more than this mother is or the average dad is. She is STILL spending more time with them than most dads in an intact family who works all the time and does his own thing on weekends, etc. I just get so mad at this attitude that women must exclusively devote the rest of their lives to childrearing. Grrrr.

I have a friend online who gave custody of her son to her ex. She just felt it was better that way. She felt he was more stable (financially, etc.) and that her son would have a better life with his father. She gets him all summer and visits him all the time. She shares pictures with us and is always talking about how well he did in school, etc. She's a very involved mother. She just doesn't have primary custody. I really don't see what's wrong with that, but it's true that people say some bad things about her. If she's a better mother by not having custody, then it's obvious to me that it's the right decision.