Kind of a religious question...

[Erin]

I hope I'm posting this in the right thread.

I've been thinking about this lately, only because of a recent email my mom sent me (her and I have never gotten along but we've recently started talking more again.) I was telling her about our childfree status and some other feelings. I will say her and my father are not the kind of parents pushing for grandchildren. So she emails me back and in regards to my email I had sent her she said this along with some other things, "You and Josh are adults and can make your own decisions and I think thats great. Never feel pressured to have kids. God does decide and sometimes we as humans interefere and wreck it."

What the heck is that supposed to mean? I hope she's not talking about my husband and I in regards to being childfree. It just got me thinking about religion. My husband and I are spiritual people but don't go to church constantly and all that. I was raised Baptist but started going to my husband's father's Methodist church at 15 when he and I just started dating. So I grew up hearing about God deciding how many kids you will have and all that. I just have a hard time believing that. I feel guilty saying that but I know it's because of my past conservative religious upbringing. I didn't always go to church on Sunday but I remember going a lot as a kid with my parents and grandparents. I'm not so sure God decides, I'm thinking it has to do with birth control and being responsible. What does everyone else think? I wish I didn't feel so guilty talking about this. When my husband and I first started talking about being childfree when we were 26 or so I had so many guilty feelings, like God is going to be angry with me for deciding this and he'll make my pill fail, etc. I still get concerned about my pill. I take it every morning at the same time and have been since age 19 (never stopped taking it either!) It amazes me that that little pill prevents such a big thing from happening. My gynecologist told me as long as I'm taking it every day around the same time I should be fine and not to worry.

I just wonder why religion is such a big factor in people choosing to have kids or to take/not take birth control. How can anyone not take birth control and just say, "If it's God's will we'll have another child," because then 1 kid turns into 3 which turns into 6 and so on. I guess I'm the kind of person that is spiritual enough to think that God wants me to be happy, therefore God will be supportive of my/our decision not to have children. I can't imagine God wants every human being on the planet to have children. The whole, "Go forth and multiply" thing.

I think sometimes I have these feelings around that time of the month and when the whole do we really want kids question comes to mind. For some reason it's been strong lately but I honestly think that's because I'm down since my husband is leaving for sea in a few weeks. Also I'm not working but want to do something with my art once I start painting again (like take some to a few local galleries and see if they'll display it, etc.) I just feel a void right now but think it's not to the fact that I don't have kids and suddenly want them. Does anyone else feel this way from time to time? My husband had someone at work ask him if we had kids and he said no & we don't want them either, and the guy was shocked. He asked how old we were and Joshua said 29 and the guy said, "Oh, you just wait. Just wait until she hits 30 then that will definitely change." Joshua said to him, "Not this girl, or myself," or something like that and the guy stopped talking about it. It's dumb stuff like that that gets to me sometimes. Even though I know I don't want kids someone will say something or I'll be a bit lonely and start thinking about it. Then once I really think about it I change my mind. Especially when I go grocery shopping and hear toddlers and babies screaming. I think to myself how thankful I am that I'm by myself in the store w/out a bunch of kids with me!

Anyway, thanks for listening to me vent!

[preraph]

Well, everyone has their own opinion about this, but it's my opinion that God gave us brains so we'd use them and make as many decisions for and about ourselves as possible. I think God might be pretty disgusted with the able-bodied among us who refuse to take control of themselves, as I assume he has plenty to do. I am in my late fifties, and you do learn some things looking back, and one thing I am sure of is that the people who took control of their own lives and made their own decisions are more content. I have never understood why anyone would just sit and wait for life to happen to them, and if you think about folks you know who have done that, left it to fate, what do you see? The few I knew who wouldn't navigate their own lives ended up under someone's dictatorial thumb or just drifting with no purpose. You have to steer the ship if you want to get anywhere. Just my opinion.

[Erin]

Thanks, that helps and I totally see your point- about one taking control of their life instead of just letting things happen. My mom told me in her email when I asked her if she always knew she would be a mom, she said she had a dream that she would have 2 girls and a boy. There are some conflicting reports from my father to my grandparents, who told me that my dad said she wasn't using her birth control or using it effectively and that's how the 3 of us got here. My mom has not been a happy person most of her life and was abusive verbally and physically to my brother and me (that's why we still don't talk often.) She has told me she wished, looking back on it, that she would have gone to college and stood up to her parents more (my grandparents.) It just sounds like there's a lot of things about her life she wished she could change or take back. From my point of view, I don't really regret anything- other than still not completing all my schooling to get my AA. (I only need 13 credits and do plan to finish when the time is right.) My dad just tried to be the best dad he could be, and he was and still is.

What you said helped me because I know now what I want to do with my art, it's just a matter of getting there that's sometimes the hard part. I think there's some fear of failure but I guess I'll never know unless I try, right? I know kids are not for me and that my art is my calling. My husband told me, in regards to himself, that after he's done in the Navy in about 10 years he wants to open an engraving shop. I can totally see him doing that. We always joke around about him doing the physical work and me being the designer and coming up with sketches, etc. Perhaps that is his calling after the Navy. I would love to help him- I think it would be fun. But I'm sure having your own business is a lot of work.

[preraph]

Your plans sound very exciting and fulfilling to me. We're all afraid of failure, and remember, we ALL fail some. The important thing is to just stay focused on your dream and just get right back up when it doesn't go as planned. You know, when you do something you love, even the hard times are happy times overall. Looking back, my favorite job was the one I made the least money at, but made the most friends. No regrets if you stay true to yourself and follow your own path. I believe the universe rewards momentum. I have had times in life where I was paralyzed, and nothing good came from my inaction. You have to keep the ball rollling and take a few chances, and then occasionally good things will come your way. When you come to a big obstacle, just do whatever you have to do to get past it. Don't tell yourself it was meant to be, not when you're on your true path. That may be okay for a job you are ambivalent about to begin with, to give up easily, but when it's your dream, fight through it. Everything is possible.

[happy2bchildfree]

IMO, the whole idea that God or any other supreme being decides if/when/how many children a person has is either just plain ignorance or used as an excuse by those who either cannot or will not take control of their own lives.

My belief is that this kind of thinking took root in biblical times, before biology was understood. People had varying numbers of children. Some were unable, then as now, to have any. So not understanding the biological reasons for this, it was explained away as "God's will" and so has becomed ingrained in religion, more in some religions than others. Many people are like sheep, simply doing and believing what they have been told, without ever stopping to consider whether or not it is right for them. JMO.

[nativenewyorker]

"It's God's will"..................when it comes to having children to me this phrase is UTTER HOGWASH!!!!!

It was all over the news about this woman here in Long Island who viciously killed numerous pets and severely abused her many children and forced them to watch her hurt animals. I don't think it was God's will that that lunatic be able to get pregnant in the first place.

There are too many stories of crazy, unstable people who should never have become parents breeding like mad - I DON'T think that was God's will!!

[Erin]

Wow, that is really terrible. I'm an animal lover and don't even like to think about what those poor creatures went through.

Thank you again for your great points-of-view. I'm feeling much better and after reading part of the book "The Parenthood Decision" by Beverly Engel, both my husband and I agree and are on the same page about our childfree status. I feel like sometimes the older I get the more I feel that female instinct kick in telling me to have kids but my mind has other more important plans. It's things like friends having kids, etc, that throws me off sometimes but then somehow I always find a way to reaffirm why I/we are childfree.

In regards to the religion subject I believe it's all biology. I have heard of some people though who were told they couldn't get pregnant and then after a while (some w/out the use of fertility treatments) somehow became pregnant. I'm guessing that was just luck though after a while of trying. Many believe it was meant to be though or even God's doing.

[preraph]

Well, for as long as I can remember, people get surprised by getting pregnant just when they'd given up, so I think that's very commonplace. For people to assume God was focused on them and personally made this change is pretty narcissistic, in my opinion.

[sage]

I think God has a will and purpose for people and some people need to get used to the fact that God doesn't plan the same thing for everybody. I think too many people assume that there's some sort of blanket life outcome that everybody has to pursue by the will of God.....that doesn't make sense to me.

[preraph]

Me either. If we were all supposed to do the same thing, believe the same things, no need to have brains at all.

[danisty]

Well, I'm not a Christian so this really isn't a personal issue for me. I believe in free will above all else. I think if you are a Christian, there can be a religious basis for believing in free will also, so I would keep that in mind when people say things like that.

[preraph]

You know, on Dr. Phil this week, the episode where horrible person/mother Alex announced her third unplanned pregnancy while her parents and ex are basically having to take care of the other two, Alex commented about it being God's plan, and Dr. Phil, who is Christian and very religious, talked at length about God giving us free will for a reason. I was quite proud of him. Wasn't sure he'd go that far.