Get a frickin' babysitter!

[sage]

Am I the only person that's tired of going to nice restaurants, museums, religious services, movies, parties, etc. and having a good time spoiled by screaming infants and crazy kids??

Whatever happened to the idea that if the parents were going to someplace that would not be too welcoming to children bawling and running up and down, to hire a babysitter for the kids while they go by themselves? I didn't see the inside of a fancy eatery until I was 12. I am grateful for that, as I didn't make myself a pain in the ass to others.

"But we have to get out somehow!" the parents protest. "WE have a life, too, you know!" Yep, um, that's kinda not everyone else's problem, you know? I shouldn't have to put up with your kids' whining and havoc just because you have to "get out". If you still want to continue the same kind of lifestyle you had when you were childfree, then maybe you shouldn't have had kids. Just a thought. You can't go to the exact same places you used to, just with the kids in tow. Well, you can, but it's a total gamble as to whether or not the kids will behave while they're there.

I realize parents are people too.....but I'm a person as well! If my mother were, say, criminally insane, I would not take her to public spaces where other people would be subject to hearing her scream back at the voices in her head, out of respect for both her and them.

And finally, I absolutely abhor it when people bring babies/kids to parties with a definitely adult feel. I make it pretty clear kids aren't allowed at my place. I also make it pretty clear that parties held here are of the adult variety. But people seem to think they can bring their kids anyway, especially infants (even if it's ten o'clock at night). I think I know why they do this, too, it's because a lot of them want to show off their kids anyway (especially if it's a baby), and they tell me that they couldn't get a sitter. Well then, you can't come here. My house, my rules. Just as I'm hosting, trying to serve the best food and offer the best of entertainment, these people make an effort to switch attention over to their infant. Even though they had a party two months ago celebrating it.

[dxsmxp2]

Sage, yes it shits me too!
I have a hell of a time getting my good friend (mother of two under 5) to leave them with Dad while she comes out to lunch or dinner with us. All about the bloody kids isn't it?! Lets all pay attention to the adorable baby that throws food and cries for a bottle and smears stuff everywhere. Downgrades the nice dinner/lunch to Playschool. I just sit and roll my eyes as we're trying to have a gossip/catchup then coversation ends because adorable kid has filled its nappy. Or is screaming for attention.
We have a dog who doesn't like kids much (pity) she gets annoyed and snaps at them. My sister in law doesn't like us bringing her around, her kids are running loose. Keep her properly restrained. She is very obedient, kids are attracted to her though. What to do if she is lying down minding her own business and some kid runs up and sticks its face in hers. I'd snarl too! So I have a rule, you want to bring your kids over, keep them on a lead, or properly restrained, theres a dog running loose. I won't lock my dog up in her own home. We are soon to have a party, which will be Childfree. No kids allowed. ;D

[preraph]

I've gone on in other threads about this subject, so I won't repeat myself, but about the dog thing, that is something that really could make or break a relationship, whether it be personal or business. I used to shop at this nursery, which was outdoors, and bring my old dog, who is afraid of people but never hurt anyone and who was completely under my control. We were very close and relied on each other. I had her on leash, and this mother and toddler were at the nursery, and the mother let go of the toddler's hand so she could come flying at my dog. I told her, "Don't let her come over here." And the manager of the nursery got mad at ME and said I couldn't bring my dog anymore. My dog hadn't done anything. I really let her have it with both barrels and never shopped there since.

Another incident with kids and a dog, I went over to a client's house to deliver something and some neighbors had gathered in her front yard, visiting. There was a woman with a baby buggy and an old blind dog with her. The group was getting to be about 8 people, I guess. As another couple and their young children walked over to join in, the woman with the blind dog said loudly so that everyone could hear her "Please don't anyone walk up to my dog. He's blind and it really scares him." And this couple that had just arrived began chatting with other adults and not minding their kids, and the kids headed straight for the dog. The woman looked panicked but seemed too intimidated to speak up. The dog started getting a little growly as the kids started poking at it. I went up to the man of the couple with the kids and totally shocked him by telling him how he has an obligation to train his kids, also telling him that if his kids got bitten it would be no one's fault but their own for not tending them and controlling them as closely as that woman was watching her dog. I was so mad. I mean, those people heard that woman and just didn't care. She was there first. It wasn't as if they were there having fun and she came and spoiled it. I tell you, people are just idiots sometimes.

[sage]

We have a dog who doesn't like kids much (pity) she gets annoyed and snaps at them.

I get so angry with kids and dogs!! I am totally devoted to my dogs. And any dogs, really. I have never in my life, witnessed a dog or cat biting a kid that didn't deserve it.

Either by attempting to ride it like a horse, picking up and squeezing the bejeezus out of it, throwing it like a toy, grabbing and pulling the tail/paw/nose/etc.

I haven't had my dogs bite kids yet, mostly because I don't allow kids around. But if they did there's no way I'd pity them, seeing as how so many think animals are playthings. Maybe if you didn't abuse her, she wouldn't snap at you? That's not a mean dog, it's a lesson that needed to be learned.

[preraph]

I feel the same way. There is no creature on earth who loves people more and is least likely to hurt one than a dog. If you can't get along with a dog, you can't get along with anything! But nothing likes to be chased, squeezed, poked and pulled. I get very upset when I see dog owners losing court cases where a kid came and put their hand through someone else's fence and got nipped. How is that anyone's fault but the parent's?

I do cut kids some slack about how they treat dogs, if they're very young or just haven't had the chance to play with them, because I've been around animals and loved them my whole life, but I remember doing some things when I was young like twirling kittens around by the tail -- because I thought they would think it was fun. So kids just need to be taught to be gentle with animals and to feel their pain, that's all. It seems like fewer and fewer people are doing that though. They take the dog out of the cage when they want to play with it like a toy and put it back in when they don't.

[maddosgirl]

My animals are my kids!
We too have a dog who dislikes children. She used to get teased by kids thru the fence. I recently had her at our local pet shop, some rug rat spotted us and broke away from mum and dad. "Doggy" she comes up and I say "Don't touch the dog" and walked away. She CHASED us around that shop. Thought I lost her, me and Kayla (dog) were looking thru the window at the kittens. Child finds us, pushes past Kayla and sat down between her nose and the glass. Right on eye level. Whats that to a dog? A challenge? Kayla growled and lunged, I grabbed her in time, her teeth didn't hit their target, but she pushed the kid backwards. Kid was shocked, before the screaming set in I high-tailed it outta there! Where was mum and dad? NOWHERE to be seen. Sometimes parents have a lot to answer for.

[Guest]

quote/Sometimes parents have a lot to answer for./quote

Not according to them. We should all help to raise their kids, don't you know!

[tia]

I just found these links from a father telling us 'daters' to back off and not glare at his misbehaving kids.

www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/apologia/vpost?id=1899376&goto=nextoldest

A couple of responses:
communities.canada.com/nationalpost/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2007/05/09/yoni-goldstein-a-dater-s-response-to- jonathan-kay.aspx

communities.canada.com/nationalpost/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2007/05/14/jonathan-kay-follows-up-on-breeders-a nd-daters-send-in-the-assmonkeys.aspx

[jmatties]

Meh, that whole rebuttal is based off the assumption that all daters will be breeders in ten years. The whole "some day you'll be me" mantra. With all due respect, f**k you sir, I'm not going to be you, I'm going to be ME, same as I always have been, and that's childfree and HAPPY with my life, unlike someone across the restaurant with the bags under their eyes and the stained shirt. Crawl back into your SUV, they have a spot saved at Chuck E Cheese for you and your wretched crotch-fruit.

[minerva]

It also completely ignores the fact that the parent has made this CHOICE and, therefore, must also live with the consequences. Why on earth should I make accommodations and sacrifices for your bad decision? I don't recall sneaking into your bedroom and stealing your supply of condoms or poking holes in your wife's diaphram...

[felina34]

When I was a kid, I have never been brought to the restaurant before age 7 (approximately). Beforehand I had had a long lecture from my mother on good manners and behavior; my mother knew I could understand and she was right, I did behave correctly. Before that, no restaurant for me. My parents simply did not eat out unless they could get a babysitter. Nobody would have thought otherwise, it was common behavior (I'm talking early 80s).
Why has this changed? I think it's because now parents want everything - they are good to claim that they make "sacrifices" too have kids, but they are not actually willing to really make them. Or maybe they don't trust everybody but them to take care of their precious offspring. Anyways, we now have kids everywhere, even the most unappropriate places. I remember a show I went to; it was held oustide, there were thousand of people on a field, a lot of drunk folks, some of them up, some others sat down on the ground, and I almost walk on a BABY (and I was not drunk). A BABY, at 11:00 PM, lying down on a sheet on the ground, while his moo was drinking with her gang of friends. Incredible.
Impossible to invite couple with children home, and asking them not to bring the kids: yes, I know. We wanted to invite my SO's half brother over for dinner, in the new apartment we just moved into. Half-brother has 2 sons (1 is 3 y-o the other 10 months) and we explained that we don't have any place for kids to play and any toy for that matter and that the kids would be bored; SO's father live a few streets away and was willing to take care of the kids for the night. Half-brother was really mad at us; fortunately the problem was solved when we mentioned our new cat - half-brother's wife is very allergic. So it was all canceled.
But I'm asking you what fun could two kids this age have in a dinner with only adult people??

[sage]

I think part of the problem is that so many moms nowadays are, as a matter of fact, younger. The vast majority of new mothers I know are kids themselves. At the very least all of them were unplanned and thus unprepared for. All they think about is having a cute cuddly baby doll to play with, and, having been raised by the first child-centric generation, are convinced that it's their God-given right to live exactly as they used to, and that includes going to all the places they went to before they were parents.

I used to work at a 24-hour discount store. After midnight the straggling kids would come in, eyes tired from attending three different parties at three different houses......with a baby in tow.

But it's also just that I think a lot of people are just plain more selfish than they used to be. Working at the same store as a sales associate I can tell you, I think a good 50% of people in this town really are convinced that the world revolves around them, and/or they are the only people worth mentioning who live in it. Being a parent seems to multiply this urge by about 500%.

[notthedaddy]

this is a letter of reply sent to "back street heroes" bike magazine in response to reader's letters complaining about certain individuals turning up at motorcycle rallies in cars
" I have been a biker since I was old enough to HAVE a bike and have attended rallies all over the UK giving my support and joining in the fun and I have always gone on my bike with my camping gear attached and drank with my mates and made many friends and it is a lifestyle i do NOT intend to give up on.. SO WHY ?(wait for it..) now that I have a wife and two children should I NOT continue to do this with my family, which obviously means that I have to use my car to transport them?... I LOVE being a biker and I LOVE the biker commmunity and atmosphere of rallies , and ( wait for it) the freedom of biking so why should I be criticised for wanting to bring my family along in the car???"

SPOT the diliberate mistakes!!! this guy is WELL screwed!!!

PS apart from the obvious oxymorons in this letter can i just point out that the entertainment at biker rallies typically include drinking LOTS OF BEER.. HEAVY METAL MUSIC.. spliffs galore!...black sabbath tribute bands who encourage the crowd to shout "F**K you" at every opportunity and the whole night is usually topped off by the MISS WET TEESHIRT CONTEST! and that is ONLY if they can't afford to hire PROFESSIONAL STRIPPERS!!!

[preraph]

Oh, that guy is overripe for his midlife crisis. Wow. That's sad. I must say bikers are not what they used to be though. I'm sure there ARE clubs that encourage wholesome families. I first realized how far the biker myth had slipped a couple of years ago when a new friend wanted me to go to Biker Sunday at a Tex-Mex joint where a lot of bikers go drink all day Sunday. I was dressed nice, chiffon skirt, makeup. Yes, I used to bike, but I do not need the HD props. And I was hoping not to stay long. Well, it was 104 degrees outside, no exaggeration. I told the friend no way am I sitting out in 104 degree heat, so she consented to sitting in the near-empty dining room. Nice and air conditioned. The bikers were all out on the patio. That way, I reasoned, we'd be free to roam but have a cool place to come back to. And after all, we weren't on bikes and trying to BE bikers. But nooooo. The restaurant said unless we were having lunch, we had to sit outside in 104 degree heat. Okay. This place probably wouldn't be in existance if it weren't for the biker patrons, you know? And yet, they were letting this place BAN THEM from the dining room. What kind of bikers would put up with that? I got on the bikers' website and called them all p*ssies for continuing to patronize a place that wouldn't even seat them, even though they're keeping the joint in business. OK, maybe I'm a p*ssy for not wanting to sit in 104 degree heat, but I don't think so.

[jessica]

I don't get it. You said they wouldn't let you sit inside unless you ordered lunch. Were you not a paying customer? It makes sense to me that a restaurant isn't going to let someone who isn't paying for anything take over a table that could be used for paying customers. If you were a paying customer, then I think that's crap.

[midoria]

I went to go an see 'Transformers' and '1408' over the last two weekends and purposely choose a late show both times. Why were their small kids (I'm talking 4 or 5) in both shows?! Isn't it child abuse to have your kid out so late so you can see a movie? That is so ridiculous! And what would provoke someone to take their kids to "1408"?? No little kid should be taken to see such a scary and sometimes bloody flick.

I will never forget when Transformers let out at 12:30am and there was this woman in the bathroom with her 2 year old daughter. The poor kid was kicking, screaming, and clawing both her and her mother's face out of sheer exhaustion. The woman was laughing and smiling at everyone in the bathroom, trying to play it off. She oughta be smacked in the face for dragging a 2 year old out so she can watch a stinking movie. It's called BABY-SITTER!!!!!

And they say us childfree are selfish. Pfft.

[sweetnsour]

This is just an example of how someone wants to have their cake and eat it too. Kids that age cannot even appreciate or understand the movie. The people want to do what they want w/o regard for the kids' need to be in bed. By the way, people stopped calling me selfish a long time ago. Now they say "enjoy yourself, no kids, you got it goin' on"!

[eoraptor]

Argh! I can't stand it when I'm watching a non-kids movie in the theater and parents come strolling in with kids in tow. Just because there's adults with the kids does not mean it's okay for the kids to be at, say, 300. I've heard some really horrible stories though. One where a woman brought her young kids to see Passion of the Christ. The kids were visibly traumatized (crying, hiding under seats, rocking back and forth) and when confronted about it, the woman said "Well, now they know what Christ went through to save them." Gah!

There are places for kids. My hubby and I were out in the mountains this weekend. We found a wonderful meadow devoid of people and he commented that this is the place for children, where they can run and scream and play to their heart's content without bothering others or being in the wrong setting. Neither one of us can figure out why parents bring kids to nice restaurants and other places where kids can't be kids. I remember full well being bored out of my skull in places like that and I know those kids aren't having any fun at an adult restaurant. I suspect the misbehaved kids in restaurants are doing it to react to being bored out of their minds.

People ask why we hate kids, but it's not that we hate them. I would absolutely love to be an aunt (my brother is too young though). It's that we hate that they're where they shouldn't be. SC (husband) seems to attract people with kids in restaurants. It's really eerie. He'll be the only person in a seat yourself restaurant and some mother or family with kids will sit at the table right next to him. He just told me that one time, many years ago when he still smoked, he was sitting in the farthest corner of the smoking section of a restaurant. No one else there. In comes some mother with twins in a stroller, makes a beeline for him and sits right next to his table and proceeds to smoke. At this point, there's two things pissing him off 1) that the woman took her infant twins to the smoking section where he and her are smoking, and 2) that she had the whole rest of the smoking section (not to mention restaurant) to sit and picked right next to him.

Last time we went out for a nice dinner to celebrate my new job, we were in the middle of our meal when a family came in with two kids. The section we were in was pretty crowded; we were at a two-person half table and the family was at a four-person normal table. If our table had been twice the width, it would have merged with the family's table. And of course, they put their kids right next to us. Fortunately, the kids were well-behaved and ate their meal quietly, but we could tell the poor things didn't want to be there. I guess idiot parents think that since the restaurant has crayons, it's a family restaurant. No, it's not. It's one of only a few nice places to eat in town (this town is devoid of good restaurants, but could easily support three times as many...why there aren't more is a mystery). The crayons are for the adults to scribble on the tablecloth before the meal arrives. It's kind of fun and neat to see in a classy place like that.

I swear, if I didn't hate food service so much, I'd start my own restaurant catering to adults and not allow kids under a certain age. This is a college town. Even if all the parents are irate and boycott my place because I don't allow 6 year old Dakota to be there, I'm sure I'd get more than enough singles coming who are happy to have a quiet place to eat.

[preraph]

I know. It's never-ending. Your husband is right about the field. That is the greatest place for kids. Not many of them are lucky enough to grow up by them and if they don't, they're afraid of every little thing. A blogger somewhere else yesterday responded to a post about pooper scooper laws throwing a fit saying he didn't want his children rolling in it (despite the fact we live in a greenbelt neighborhood where there's squirrel, possums, raccoon, lots of birds and even coyote doo-doo as well). I mean, people who don't like dogs are just livid about picking up the doody, even in the woods here. They just don't like dogs. I told him that when I was a child, our parents taught us to watch where we were stepping and certainly not to lay down and roll in anything and said but it wasn't because of doody, which is harmless, but because of stinging insects, etc. Good lord, would it KILL people to teach their kids the most basic little thing??

I blame restaurants for a lot of the problem with kids. My dining room yesterday was empty except for me and one other table across the room and the stupid hostess seated a family at the very next table to me when there were all those other choices. I have written that restaurant before, and they just refuse to do anything. So I am getting ready to blog and use their name publicly on the local newspapers and magazines. It will probably only draw more families though. I was lucky because these didn't make much noise. The mother shushed the little girl several times and the baby only squawked once. But see, when there's a baby at the next table, then I can't look that direction, because if I look over and it's got a string of drool coming from anywhere, my meal is ruined.

[minerva]

preraph said:

But see, when there's a baby at the next table, then I can't look that direction, because if I look over and it's got a string of drool coming from anywhere, my meal is ruined.

OK, I'm so glad to know I'm not the only one who feels this way. I have so many people, including my steadfastly CF SO, who say I'm just over-reacting to this. Excess saliva just heebs me out, whether it's coming off an infant or an adult. YUCK.