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Post by soyartista on Oct 11, 2008 14:54:40 GMT -5
I'm not exactly a fence-sitter- in fact, I'd say I'm about 98% positive I don't want children. My problem lies in the world of dating. I recently ended a 5 year relationship (the last 1 1/2 years of which we were engaged) because we realized our lives were heading in different directions. He wanted kids and I didn't- and while that wasn't the only major problem in the relationship it was certainly a big concern. Now I've started dating another man, and we're extremely happy together except for that same problem...we know this relationship doesn't have much long term potential b/c of our differing views on children. It breaks my heart to know that this relationship won't work even though we're so great for each other in every other regard.
So, I guess I'm feeling a little down in dumps- thinking maybe if I was just "normal" and wanted children that maybe my relationships would work out better. I know that's a silly view to take...I know I'd never be happy as a mother, and I shouldn't change my standards just to please other people. Should I just enjoy these little relationships while they last, even though I know they won't last long? Should I just stop dating until I find that man who makes me happy and doesn't want children?
Hopefully that didn't come across as too much of a pity party. Anybody else been through this and have any advice to offer?
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Post by happy2bchildfree on Oct 11, 2008 16:16:50 GMT -5
I went through the same thing, and it was a big factor in my divorce as well.
I personally didn't want to get involved with someone knowing that the relationship had no long-term potential because of the kid issue. To avoid that, I brought up the issue at the very beginning, like within the first couple of dates. If the man expressed a wish to have children or even if he wasn't sure, I didn't get involved. I spent a lot of time alone, but to me, that was better than getting involved in a dead-end situation, since I was looking to marry and not interested in dating just for the sake of dating. I also didn't think it fair to waste my time and that of someone else.
I too, always felt that if I had wanted children, my relationships would have worked out better and I wouldn't have been single for as long as I was.
What I did was the right thing for me. I was true to myself and I don't regret that at all because I'm sure saved myself--and maybe others--a lot of emotional trauma.
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Post by preraph on Oct 11, 2008 20:47:02 GMT -5
I let guys know right away that I wasn't having kids. Especially when young, this won't deter all of them from pursuing you because they may be thinking it doesn't matter because they're nowhere near ready to settle down anyway. Of course, that alone, one person being ready to get serious and the other having no intention of it, is a universal problem in dating. So it does take some talking to find out if they think they have to have kids, but I've usually found that men will tell you right away when you bring it up whether they like and want kids or not. I did get in deep with one who didn't make it clear right away. I just think he didn't think he'd end up getting serious enough to worry about it. But that did hurt. As with you, it wasn't the only reason we broke up, but it was the reason he wouldn't say "I love you" (well, just like on The Nanny, he said it and then took it back), because to him, he shouldn't say it unless he was willing to back it up with commitment. It would have meant the world to me if he'd just admitted he loved me, would have at least given me that, but he wouldn't. I believe he did though.
I don't know about anyone else, but once I find out that someone I have real feelings for isn't going to go all the way, I begin hurting too much to enjoy continuing the relationship. But I know everyone is different.
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Post by midoria on Oct 11, 2008 22:48:50 GMT -5
I'd like advice as well - or a cyber hug. I just back from a date tonight with a guy I could see myself with for the long-term. He's 7 years my junior (which is much more noticeable when you're under 35), but with an old soul and lots of life experience, so it feels like I'm with someone my age. However, I managed to work in that I didn't want kids, and he actually stopped walking in the middle of the street and just stared. It took 2 blocks to convince him that I was serious. I should be on cloud nine, but I'm just depressed. He wants to see me again (he called to make sure I got in alright), but I'm apt to say "no" because I simply don't want my heart broken.
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Post by Tabetha on Oct 12, 2008 2:10:43 GMT -5
I'd like advice as well - or a cyber hug. I just back from a date tonight with a guy I could see myself with for the long-term. He's 7 years my junior (which is much more noticeable when you're under 35), but with an old soul and lots of life experience, so it feels like I'm with someone my age. However, I managed to work in that I didn't want kids, and he actually stopped walking in the middle of the street and just stared. It took 2 blocks to convince him that I was serious. I should be on cloud nine, but I'm just depressed. He wants to see me again (he called to make sure I got in alright), but I'm apt to say "no" because I simply don't want my heart broken. Just my 2 cents... Since it sounds like you enjoy his company and personality, If he wants to go out with you again you might want to meet with him again and see what he says about his feelings on the subject now he knows where you stand. (Try to go somewhere it's comfortable to carry on a meaningful/extended conversation.) Sometimes (especially when one is young like him or has more limited dating experience) it can take a few days for someone who's never questioned the default mode of having children to realize whether it's really something they really want to do or not. When I met my future husband and the subject of kids came up and I came out of the CF closet, he told me that he assumed that having children was the woman's decision...and since most women wanted children he'd end up raising a child despite not having any strong feelings about having children himself. He'd never met anyone CF and was relieved that I didn't want our lives to follow the typical lifescript.
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Post by happy2bchildfree on Oct 12, 2008 12:28:30 GMT -5
Midoria, If I was in your situation, I wouldn't write him off so soon. I agree with Tabetha, that your revelation that you will not be having kids, ever, may take a while to sink in.
On the positive side, he may just have been really surprised because all he's met are women who want kids--and just maybe he doesn't want them either.
On the negative side, maybe he thinks you don't really mean what you said, or that you will change your mind.
That said, I'd give it a little more time and some more discussion, and take it from there.
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Post by preraph on Oct 12, 2008 16:00:52 GMT -5
I think it depends on WHAT he said. If he said he loves kids and definitely wants them, probably need to let him go. If he was just astounded but didn't say he wanted kids, then he could have just been astounded you were talking about children on the first date. That's the sort of thing men always have their antennae up about - but it's because when a woman does that, she's usually desperate to HAVE kids, so he could have had a reaction just to talking about something that serious the first date, but only you know that. If he spent the entire time saying he doesn't understand why you don't want kids, then I'm afraid you better move on. I hope that's not the case though. Maybe he will think about it. You should ask him next time if he'd ever even considered not having them before you brought it up and see what he says.
I'm giving you a mental hug right now. And you need to give me one back because I'm in kind of a painful limbo with a man I could really care about right now. He's been depressed and mostly withdrawn for over a month, and though I've asked him if this is his way of dumping me twice, he says he's depressed, but I've never seen anyone depressed have this much of a personality change - he will respond to neutral emails but not anything personal or flirtatious at all. I just don't know what he's doing. He came back from a SHORT one of these once, but this has gone on an awful long time. I'm not sure he knows what he wants. Anyway, I'm in a position of setting dangerous precedents of letting him treat me bad because when he told me he was depressed and that when he got that gloomy, it usually ran people off, I told him I'd hang in there -- but it's real hard to do and keep my dignity at this point. So throw any hugs and spiritual help my way -- and his, because that's all I've been able to do to help the situation lately since he's not communicating about anything meaninful much.
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Post by soyartista on Oct 12, 2008 16:05:26 GMT -5
Midoria and Preraph, Lots of hugs!
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Post by midoria on Oct 12, 2008 19:33:36 GMT -5
I think it depends on WHAT he said. If he said he loves kids and definitely wants them, probably need to let him go. If he was just astounded but didn't say he wanted kids, then he could have just been astounded you were talking about children on the first date. Well it kind of came up naturally when we were taking a stroll after dinner in the Old Town area and we walked passed over-the-top baby boutique. It had this awful display of a European themed bassinet and changing table that looked like something Marie Antionette would have picked out for her daughter. My guy said something to the tune of "Who would pick out something like that for their kid? Who do they think they are?" and I said "I dunno, maybe J-Lo or Angie Jolie?". And we fell into talking about kids. We mostly talked about why I didn't want kids. Well I talked, and he just listened. What was interesting is that he actually said he understood. After a while, he was listing his own reasons. But he's the type who tries to understand people, so I don't want too excited. But it was a good sign. I'm hugging you mentally and spiritually!! As someone who suffers from depression, what he's doing actually sounds normal. Without medications, I usually went months at a time like that.
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Post by preraph on Oct 12, 2008 20:11:07 GMT -5
Thanks for the insight and the hug. Well, I was depressed for 10 years and isolated, but I think if I'd had a romantic interest, I wouldn't have isolated from them, you know.
Well, you just need to talk to that guy of yours again in a little while and see if he has any new thoughts on the subject. If he's very young, maybe he has no idea what it means to have one, too. Hope things work out for you.
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Post by midoria on Oct 13, 2008 12:46:54 GMT -5
Thanks for the insight and the hug. Well, I was depressed for 10 years and isolated, but I think if I'd had a romantic interest, I wouldn't have isolated from them, you know. Yes, that would make sense. But for me, part of the reason I acted that way is because I was ashamed. I didn't want my loved ones to "see me like that". And for you!
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Post by preraph on Oct 13, 2008 13:45:12 GMT -5
Yeah, I think shame figures into it for him as well. I told him when he first admitted he was depressed that I didn't want him to start thinking he could only talk to me when he was doing well, and he received that well, but then went right back to isolating. He has an image to maintain, too, and that makes it even harder for him. I just wish he'd let me have a real conversation with him, but he shies away from that now, whereas he used to write so much email I couldn't even get my work done. It's hard to cope with. Thanks for the help.
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noregrets78
Full Member
See you in infinity...
Posts: 151
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Post by noregrets78 on Oct 13, 2008 14:24:42 GMT -5
I'm not exactly a fence-sitter- in fact, I'd say I'm about 98% positive I don't want children. My problem lies in the world of dating. I recently ended a 5 year relationship (the last 1 1/2 years of which we were engaged) because we realized our lives were heading in different directions. He wanted kids and I didn't- and while that wasn't the only major problem in the relationship it was certainly a big concern. Now I've started dating another man, and we're extremely happy together except for that same problem...we know this relationship doesn't have much long term potential b/c of our differing views on children. It breaks my heart to know that this relationship won't work even though we're so great for each other in every other regard. So, I guess I'm feeling a little down in dumps- thinking maybe if I was just "normal" and wanted children that maybe my relationships would work out better. I know that's a silly view to take...I know I'd never be happy as a mother, and I shouldn't change my standards just to please other people. Should I just enjoy these little relationships while they last, even though I know they won't last long? Should I just stop dating until I find that man who makes me happy and doesn't want children? Hopefully that didn't come across as too much of a pity party. Anybody else been through this and have any advice to offer? Whatever you do, never change who you are to please anyone else, ESPECIALLY with an innocent life that could become the victim. I know its rough...BELIEVE me. The girl I'm dating now (and have been on and off for 2 years) wants kids...knows that I don't and have had the vasectomy to prove it. It sucks trying to meet new people when you don't want kids...but its easier for a woman. More men than women don't want kids (from my own observations), so I truly believe you'll be ok. I know it sucks but eventually you will find someone you truly connect with that agrees with your decision to remain child-free. Don't give up hope! As for knowing the relationship is doomed from the start...its really hard to say goodbye in that case...and from personal experience I know. I still haven't been able to really say goodbye...and in my head I know its almost impossible she'll be happy with me long term. The problem that now comes in is you having this in your head will not allow the relationship to have a future. You already know its going to end...
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Post by juliepoo15 on Oct 13, 2008 15:38:37 GMT -5
More hugs to you guys... I understand, as I just had the revalation a few months ago and am going through this bit of tug of war with my hubby, as most of you already know.
This is where I am right now. It actually seems to be sinking in. Now I just have to stick to my guns, as noregrets has said. It's never a good idea to change yourself to make a relationship work. If you feel it, deep down inside, the person you are with should respect you enough to understand and move forward with you if they so choose. If not, as painful as it is, it'll have to be bye bye. Better to end the relationship, than live with resentment. Much luck to you guys.
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Post by happy2bchildfree on Oct 13, 2008 18:55:45 GMT -5
Better to end the relationship, than live with resentment. If I'd caved to my ex's wishes to have a child, the resentment would have ended up tearing the relationship apart anyway--and I would have been stuck with a kid I never wanted.
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Post by Tabetha on Oct 14, 2008 2:34:46 GMT -5
Just a thought...
Preraph, people have different ways of dealing with depression. Sometimes men prefer to hibernate and spend some time not being verbally intimate with those around them while they're getting over a depressing time/ planning the next step to solve the situation.
Even though I'm female, I'm like that too. Under stress I need to retreat in my emotional cave so I can deal with whatever negative situation is bothering me. During those times, I'm often *unable* (not unwilling) to be emotionally vulnerable until I get a sense I'm healing/ready to move forward.
Sometimes moving forward is scary, so some people end up feeling a bit paralyzed until they feel safe enough to find their own way.
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Post by preraph on Oct 14, 2008 9:45:50 GMT -5
Thanks, Tabetha. You know, I hibernated for many years myself, so I do understand, but since this was preceded by a big talk we had some disagreements about our relationship in, I think there are other things factoring in besides just the job depression, and I need him to deal with that. He's not being considerate enough to stop me from fretting, and that's not fair. I wonder if there's some facet of him being passive-aggressive about it since he never did that to this extent until there came a time when he did it once and I asked him not to leave me dangling (by not writing as often as he used to) because it worried me. Right on the heels of that was this big talk I mentioned, but he SWEARS it was not me getting mad about him skipping days that motivated it, but I still wonder. Because you know how men are, if you ask them to not do something, they'll do it just to spite you. I am over wanting a man like that because it just causes me pain, and I need to find out if that is figuring in here at all or if he's truly having this much trouble coping that he CAN'T write me more often than this (down from 40 emails a day, you know, so big difference to one a week). Because even in my depression, which was long and severe, if someone was trying to reach me, I responded.
I've just told him that I am now bored and getting depressed and need a break and may go to California, but he may not even respond to the email, because lately, he's only responding to nonpersonal ones, which is another reason I feel there's resentment at work here -- or disinterest. I've openly asked him twice now if this is him wanting to put distance between us, and he never takes me up on it. I mean, if he's wanting to sever ties or stop being romantic, I've handed him the easiest way ever to do the dirty job of breaking it off twice. But you know, some guys just prefer to leave things dangling because they think you can't fault them for that or some nonsense, so I hope that's not what this is. But either way, I feel I am almost to a point where I CAN'T interact with him in any meaningful way. If he is, as he says, "killing the bear," then it is taking an awfully long time -- and I don't know what bear he's killiing unless it's me.
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Post by happy2bchildfree on Oct 14, 2008 10:41:19 GMT -5
Sorry to say, but in my experience when men want to break things off, most of them seem to do so by either putting increasing emotional distance in the relationship and/or just eventually disappearing, leaving the woman dangling and wonderering what happened. I hate men for that and still carry an intense amount of anger for having had that done to me so many times. I even had a couple of them resurface, wanting to start things up again. Of course after what they had done, I was angry and wanted nothing more to do with them because I felt I could never trust them again, and they just couldn't (or wouldn't) understand that. I think a lot of men get off on getting a woman to have feelings for them, and then when she does, pulling the disappearing act. Just my (unfortunate) experience...
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Post by preraph on Oct 14, 2008 12:06:01 GMT -5
I've generally avoided the dangling thing, because I will confront them, but I did have my last one, an old flame, try to pull that rather than tell me what was going on. I made him spit it out though. To me, that is just cowardly. I know there's depression also at work here, and that just totally muddies the water. I did have one old sort-of boyfriend who would wander in and out and just drove me crazy. I have a feeling that's what this one may end up doing. It's been an unusual circumstance, so it's got everything against it to last, but you never know. I have been so honest with him about not being interested in anyone who isn't focused on me that you'd think he'd take that to heart and respect it. Instead, men seem to act like you don't have the right to make those decisions and set those parameters. Well, just watch me! Because I've got no time for anyone who doesn't think I'm special enough for that. I will hang in there if it's depression and he's going to deal with it, but a relationship requires attention and consideration for me these days.
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Post by happy2bchildfree on Oct 14, 2008 12:45:08 GMT -5
I've generally avoided the dangling thing, because I will confront them, but I did have my last one, an old flame, try to pull that rather than tell me what was going on. I made him spit it out though. To me, that is just cowardly. I attempted to confront some of them, but if the man refused to communicate in any way, not much I could do, although I did send some of them scathing letters. Those I did manage to communicate with rarely gave me any kind of a straight answer, which infuriated me even more. I remember one jerk in particular--we had dated maybe three or four months, then out of the blue he announced that he no longer wanted to be in a relationship with me. Everything had been seemingly going well--no arguments, nothing. To make matters worse, he did this after eating dinner in my home. I told him that it was fine if he wished to end the relationship but that I wanted to know WHY. I felt he owed me that. He refused to give me any kind of an answer except to say that he no longer wanted to be in a relationship with me. Whatever. Then the jerk has the nerve to leave several messages on my phone, which I ignored. (Thankfully I was never home when he called.) Several months later he had the audacity to send me a birthday card. He finally gave up and didn't attempt to contact me again. About a year later I went to a restaurant in the area with a date, and who should be standing there, right outside the entrance? The look on his face when he saw me was priceless. He looked like he'd seen a ghost and even turned around so as not to have to look me in the face. It made my day. I think I could write a book with experiences like that. And then people wonder why I hate and distrust men (in general).
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