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Post by serenity on Feb 13, 2009 18:30:15 GMT -5
Hi everyone, Something has changed in me this past couple of weeks. I think I want off the fence. I think I want to be childfree. That's the good news. I have always dreamed of the beautiful moment when I would become a mother. I am having a hard time giving up that dream, and I feel a real sense of loss. All my life I have planned on having kids. Generally I pride myself on my independence and my ability to think for myself. But it has become clear to me that my desire to be a parent was nothing but a product of years of breeder rhetoric. My mother played a big part in it by constantly going on about how my childhood was the most fun she ever had, and I believed her. I had so many dreams about the fun times I would have with my children. A big one was raking up leaves in the yard and then jumping into the pile with a sweet child who couldn't stop giggling. I even looked forward to 2 am feedings, which seemed like a wonderful bonding time with a baby. I even looked forward to the day-to-day stuff. I wasn't aware of it at the time, but I was blocking out any and all evidence that parenthood may not be all that lovely. I willfully ignored it, because I was absolutely convinced that I wanted kids and that kids would make my life wonderful. The same sort of attitude you see in a lot of people these days. I have had sweet dreams about being pregnant, or of cradling my child. I even had a dream about running into a burning building to save my child. I was sure they were telling the truth. I figured hey, I'm only 10, how can I understand the joys of parenting? Fast-forward 20 years... I look at the lives of other parents and it looks like absolute hell. Always having to put someone else's needs before your own. Toys all over the floor. Barney on the television. No more social life, no more nights out. Just barely scraping by, always doing without for the kids' sake. Never getting to sit down with a book (my favorite thing to do). Always being on call. Being a constant chauffeur and ATM for the kids when they get older. Troubles in school, issues with bullies, drugs, gangs and god knows what else. Things will probably be even worse by the time my hypothetical children reach their teens. And omg, PTA meetings? Somebody shoot me. We visited my SIL and her husband over Christmas, and they have two daughters, ages 5 and 2.5. They're good kids, and I love them, but my poor SIL didn't even get to talk to us until the kids were asleep. They were just constantly needing her to do something. Her husband didn't do a thing. I can't imagine not having time to myself. I'd go nuts. But the real kicker came after the kids had gone to bed. We were all discussing politics, and my SIL was cleaning up the toys around the Christmas tree. Out of the clear blue, she asked my husband and me, "Are you going to have kids?" I said we were still not sure. She said, "Don't. Just don't." That really hit home for both me and my husband. She is a wonderful and smart lady and I know she adores her girls. I never thought she'd be at all ambivalent about parenthood. Her husband started making some noise about "Oh, but when she jumps into your lap..." Easy for him to say! She's doing all the work! I was looking forward to getting back home the next day and smoking a nice joint and watching an R-rated movie without worrying about the influence it would have on a kid. The next morning, I played on the floor with the kids for a bit. I was surprised that I didn't really enjoy playing with them- I was kind of bored. Games for 5-year olds aren't very stimulating. So, it is becoming pretty clear to me that I do not want kids. Whenever I am honest with myself, that is what I realize. I am feeling very sad about having to give up a lifelong dream. I know it's for the best, for me, my husband and the environment. (My husband feels pretty much the same way but I know he would have been willing to have a baby with me if I really wanted to, because he would rather be a parent with me than lose me.) I feel sad when I see pregnant women and babies, and kids in their delightful moments. I was crying when I started typing this but am feeling better since letting it all out. I know I need to deal with the loss and it will take time, before I can reach my goal of being happily childfree with no regrets. I'm considering sterilization in the future (I know I'm not ready now). Has anyone else ever grieved the loss of a hypothetical child? Any advice? I can't believe how much this hurts. I think I know why I have been on the fence for so long- maybe deep down I knew I was childfree and didn't want to deal with the inevitable grief. All feedback is appreciated!
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Post by preraph on Feb 13, 2009 19:16:00 GMT -5
I'll let those who can relate more answer that at length, but I will say that many of us have to give up one dream or another by the time we're middle aged. I am very glad I accomplished all my biggest dreams when I was young, because I'll always have that, but there are things that make me sad because I know I can never do them, like owning a lot of land and having horses again, or a lakehouse, or traveling extensively. It's hard enough to do everything you want without kids. With them, I wouldn't have been able to do any of the things I most wanted to do, and I'm glad I knew that in time.
Congratulations on moving to the next level. I think it will get easier now that you have that clarity. Bravo to your SIL for not BS'ing you.
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Post by Karlita on Feb 13, 2009 21:25:00 GMT -5
I can understand greiving the loss of the ability to bear children. I felt that way for about a month after my tubal. However, the reality of having or doing something isn't necessarily as good or fulfilling as the dream of having or doing something. People have the ability to build something up in their head to such great heights, that when they actually experience their dream, it doesn't live up to the expectations and becomes a disappointment. Children deserve to be brought into the world by people who will love them and who want them - not by the people who think having kids is just what you do etc. If you have any doubts, don't do it. People always tell me you love you own kid no matter what. I say that's fine if it's true, but what if it's not - I can't take that chance.
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Post by preraph on Feb 13, 2009 22:47:52 GMT -5
Yes, and loving a child alone doesn't make a good parent.
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Post by fencesitter on Feb 14, 2009 9:35:11 GMT -5
Your sister-in-law sounds like a terrific person. How refreshingly honest she was! Although I always loved babysitting, it's also paradoxically a major contributing factor to my ending up being childless...I saw the reality up close and personal for years. What you described about playing with them is so true...I loved the kids, but it did get tiresome and BORING (until they were older). One of the mothers never hid her desperation to get out of the house. I worried the kids would pick up on her desire to be away from them, but they all came out fine. Years later she kept asking when I was going to have kids...it took all that I had in me to bite my tongue (this lady had EVERYTHING to do with my understanding of the downside of raising children).
You should count your lucky stars for your sister-in-law. She's not sugar-coating her reality. Most parents will never admit their misgivings to the childfree.
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Post by serenity on Feb 15, 2009 11:22:05 GMT -5
Thanks so much everyone. I know I'm making the right choice. My husband and I have two kitties, and we love them so much. In fact, my deep love for my kitties made me think about kids again (when we first got them). They bring me such joy and love. We are definitely considering more. I asked myself a big question recently- how would I feel if I found out I was infertile? I was shocked at the first word that came to mind- RELIEVED! Because that would mean that it just wasn't meant to be, and I could stop feeling guilty about not fulfilling my destiny. As if that's every fertile woman's destiny. I know that sounds ridiculous, but it's just a product of breeder culture. I actually realized part of my guilt over not wanting children was that I am able to, and fertility is such a wonderful gift (blah blah) and I shouldn't waste all my woman parts. Great reason to become a parent, don't you think? Guilt over unused body parts. Wouldn't want the ovaries to have hurt feelings. Maybe I should start eating raw meat, so my appendix can have a job too. How ridiculous. I think I can get over it! Got a juicy tidbit for all of you- I have a very close male friend. He and his wife have a 10-month old. Since the baby was born, his wife is feeling tired, stressed, and very unattractive. She has no interest in sex. So, said friend is having a hot, steamy affair with a childfree mistress. He said he will end it when the child gets older and the sex gets better at home (yeah, sure it will). They're even thinking of having another! I think the mistress will be around for a while!
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mar
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Post by mar on Feb 15, 2009 13:38:53 GMT -5
serenity Wow that friend of yours must be a slow learner , (e.g. - they're thinking of having another one). He must be thinking " golly - gee, I'll just have to have another hot steamy affair if I get her preggers again - ooooh, can't wait !" Something is wrong with this picture: #1 Chances are his wife will probably find out about his affair #2 He'll end up losing her (wife) AND his kid(s) #3 The 'other woman' will most likely get tired of him and move on to another married man IMO he better get snipped right now if he's got a brain bsides the one between his legs
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Post by happy2bchildfree on Feb 15, 2009 14:30:26 GMT -5
I have to wonder about people who have a child then complain about how hard it is and how their lives have changed for the worse--then they go on to have MORE children. Do these people think that having more than one child is going to be somehow easier than having just one? I don't understand it. I really don't.
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Post by malagata on Feb 17, 2009 1:33:20 GMT -5
I completely understand what you are going through. I went through a grieving period a few years ago where I had to let go of my mythical daughter. I do think about her from time to time still but I know I did the right thing. To be quite blunt, I love my children too much to bring them into this world. I think that in a twisted way I am the ultimate parent. I am also childfree for many, many other reasons. While I was grieving I made a list of all the pros and cons of having children. There were very few pros and I could have filled a book with the cons. It helped to put things in perspective in a concrete way. I may be consciously childfree, but I am still human and still have a bio clock. Thank goodness for my functioning brain! ;D Hugs for you, I know how deep the loss of an ideal can cut.
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Post by nativenewyorker on Feb 17, 2009 9:41:14 GMT -5
O Serenity,
I feel for you. You are definitely not alone in your fencesitter experience! I could relate to everything in your post except:
I NEVER dreamt of playing with a child in the leaves or of the 2 am feedings. In fact anything remotely childlike, like Barney or toys always irritated me. I don't and have never found playing with 5-year olds entertaining. While I find some young'uns cute, I get bored with them after a few minutes.
So, once I hit 40, imagine my surprise when I started feeling sad whenever I saw pregnant women or babies. It hit me like a ton of bricks. Now, as I am 43 & infertile, I think what I'm feeling more is grief at having lost my fertility because it signified my youth, as well as grief over never having birthed a child, which is so esteemed in our society. And grief, of course, for not having chosen to conform to what society thinks my role should be, i.e., essentially I chose to be a "social outcast."
What makes me feel like I'm a fencesitter (when I know I definitely don't want to be a parent) is the odd feeling of regret for not having had a baby, when everyone around me has. I see how it's affected my relationships with women in general, how I relate to women and how I view myself at times. It has not always been easy. I've been prodded and criticized beyond belief by friends, family and strangers for years.
Cruel comments from close friends still sting after a number of years. 5 years ago, one of my closest friends told me there was something wrong with me for not wanting a kid, that having a kid makes you a more mature, better person & seals a relationship with your man. Well, today, she is divorcing. After 5 years of supporting her loser husband & letting him drain her $$$ dry, he left her for another woman. So I guess being a single mother and hitting the bars several nites a week makes her a better person than me cuz she has a kid. Sorry to veer off the topic but this is one that still emotionally charges me....
Well in my case, I know I'll come to terms with this whole thing in time. I know I'm blessed to have a great husband who loves me lots & time and energy to pursue my passions & do work I love, not a 9-5 job to support a family.
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Post by happy2bchildfree on Feb 17, 2009 14:45:22 GMT -5
Cruel comments from close friends still sting after a number of years. The cruel comments I received from others still anger me after all these years. Most of the comments came from people I didn't know well, but one came from someone I considered a good friend. One guy I was dating, upon finding out that I didn't want children--told me that I should seek psychiatric help because I wasn't normal. Needless to say, that was the last I had anything to do with him. In another instance, I was discussing my inability to find anything even resembling a committed relationship with someone who had been a close friend for years. His response? "How can you expect anyone to marry you when you won't give him children?" WTF? Like I had no value beyond being a breeder? I never felt the slightest grief at the loss of my fertility--only relief, nor did I ever grieve the children I never had. Apparently the grieving is a common feeling because before I had my tubal I was told that I might experience such feelings for a time. I admit, I do have kind of a curiousity about what my theoretical children might have looked like/been like.
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Post by preraph on Feb 17, 2009 16:12:36 GMT -5
God, some people are such asses. They would never say that about a man: How do you ever expect to find some woman to marry you if you don't give her children. You're well rid of anyone who would think such a thing - much less SAY it!
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Post by chrisc on Feb 21, 2009 0:57:33 GMT -5
you might feel like youre giving up a lifelong dream of having children, but wait until you have dreams and goals for your children and then have to give them up. it seems like you had a sense of the requirements of parenting that wasnt based in reality. kudos to you for making the right decision!
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aeon
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Post by aeon on Feb 24, 2009 20:18:41 GMT -5
I feel the same way, like I have been swept up by this fantasy of what it would be like to have a daughter. I am 38 so I think it has to do with the fertility window closing. I look at my friends who made very deliberate decisions in their lives leading up to having kids, such as picking a partner/husband who wanted them and was earning a certain amount of money, choosing a house based on the school district, etc. It never occurred to me to do any of that, and I also did not realize they were consciously making those choices either. I still wonder if I am one of those people who would be transformed by an unplanned pregnancy (don't worry, IUD firmly in place) and would see the meaning of life, etc. etc. But instead I am focussing on letting go of the dream/fantasy and finding other ways to get my needs for family and community met, including spending time with younger girls and mentoring them.
I also am struggling with my women friends, fortunately none of them, and none of my acquaintances, has ever said anything cruel like what was posted above! I just feel left out, alien, kind of a freak, and unformed or immature. I am hopeful though that with some work and effort I will get beyond these feelings and find a real meaning and purpose in life. I agree that a lot of women fall apart when their kids leave, perhaps because they now have to deal with this too.
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Post by limeygirl on Feb 25, 2009 10:47:16 GMT -5
Having kids is a big deal and so is not having them. I understand how it feels to be on the outside when it comes to relating to other females. Their lives revolve around the needs of the children and it must be so hard. I guess mothers can relate to each other because they have experienced this, and I haven't , BUT I feel that even if I did have a child I wouldn't want to be part of that group. I have to walk past a school to get to work, and often overhear groups of women having discussions. Its always about the kids, their grades, complaints about the teachers, moaning about having to find things for cookery class etc. They tell each other things about their own kids lives, their likes and dislikes etc but I'm sure none of the other mothers actually wants to hear this utterly mundane blaaah about somebody else's kid, they just want to talk about their own child. It makes me want to scream. There is no going back once you have a child. If you are the sort of person who puts a lot of thought into having or not having one, I think it shows that you would have made a decent parent. However, somethings got to give and that would have been ourselves, the person that we are. If we are happy with ourselves, we don't need another human being to validate that. Years and years of drudgery, worry, work and responsibility saved. Phew!
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mar
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Post by mar on Feb 25, 2009 11:31:51 GMT -5
If we are happy with ourselves, we don't need another human being to validate that. Years and years of drudgery, worry, work and responsibility saved. Phew! **************************** limeygirl ~ you've got that right ! I believe that all those young teenage girls that want a baby so badly is because they are not happy with themselves, and think a baby will fulfill them ; they will then have "someone to love", and someone to love them back. Good gawd, they need to get a life ! AND a brain. They don't have a clue. Who the hell do they think is going to pay for their stupidity ??&%$# I get all fired up when I see programs on t.v. about this crap. I feel like screaming "WHAT"S WRONG WITH YOU STUPID FOOLS ?!
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Post by sylvia67 on Feb 26, 2009 11:50:49 GMT -5
Cruel comments from close friends still sting after a number of years. The cruel comments I received from others still anger me after all these years. Most of the comments came from people I didn't know well, but one came from someone I considered a good friend. One guy I was dating, upon finding out that I didn't want children--told me that I should seek psychiatric help because I wasn't normal. Needless to say, that was the last I had anything to do with him. In another instance, I was discussing my inability to find anything even resembling a committed relationship with someone who had been a close friend for years. His response? "How can you expect anyone to marry you when you won't give him children?" WTF? Like I had no value beyond being a breeder? I never felt the slightest grief at the loss of my fertility--only relief, nor did I ever grieve the children I never had. Apparently the grieving is a common feeling because before I had my tubal I was told that I might experience such feelings for a time. I admit, I do have kind of a curiousity about what my theoretical children might have looked like/been like. I am very sorry you had to suffer those jerks saying things like that to you. I would have gone off on them big time with my temper. those comments cross boundaries big time and they are ignorant. I try to remember the saying when people act like jerks that you cant control others but you can control how you react to them. But sometimes u do have to let off steam. thank god we have here to vent
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Post by preraph on Feb 26, 2009 13:00:53 GMT -5
That reminds me of a joke Joan Baez told in concert a couple of days ago. There were two southern women visiting, Linda Sue and Betty Louise. Linda Sue said, "I swear, my husband just thinks the world of me. He just bought me a brand-new Jaguar."
Betty Louise said, "That's nice."
Linda Sue said, "Yes, he'd do the world for me, you know, like buying me this big ol' diamond ring," and she held out her hand to show it off.
Betty Louise said, "That's nice."
Linda Sue went on, "My husband just loves me SO much that there's nothing he wouldn't do for me. You know, that lake house he bought for me was VERY expensive."
Betty Louise said, "That's nice."
Linda Sue said, "Well, Betty Louise, what has your husband done for you lately?"
Betty Louise said, "Well, he sent me to charm school."
Linda Sue said, "Charm school? What do you go to charm school for?"
Betty Louise said, "Well, you know, I used to say "F**k you" a lot, and they taught me to say "That's nice" instead.
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Post by happy2bchildfree on Feb 26, 2009 16:19:08 GMT -5
I am very sorry you had to suffer those jerks saying things like that to you. I would have gone off on them big time with my temper. those comments cross boundaries big time and they are ignorant. I try to remember the saying when people act like jerks that you cant control others but you can control how you react to them. But sometimes u do have to let off steam. thank god we have here to vent It was hard to bite my tongue and sometimes I couldn't do it, but I tried my best. I didn't want those ignorant people to have the satisfaction of knowing their comments had any effect on me if I could possibly help it. I wish I could have had some support (like this board) back in my 20s and 30s, but at that time no support existed, at least not that I was aware of.
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Post by happy2bchildfree on Feb 26, 2009 16:20:52 GMT -5
That reminds me of a joke Joan Baez told in concert a couple of days ago. I've heard that joke before. I love it!
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