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Post by ana on Mar 31, 2008 13:19:03 GMT -5
One of the reasons I chosen not to have children is that I don't want to be responsible for someone else. Why would I then choose to "take care" of my husband. He's a grown man fully capable to making decisions and taking care of himself.
Funny story, a couple friends of ours made plans for all of us to go out for dinner one night. A few days before, the gf calls to find out where we would like to go, so my husband offers up a few choices. She then asks if he needs to check with me. Huh?? He said, no thanks, she'll be okay with any of these choices.
So many people won't make a decision and need to check in with their spouse. What the heck is that about?
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Post by preraph on Mar 31, 2008 16:54:01 GMT -5
I think it's about when the spouses don't agree, which happens frequently over food! In my part of the country, men are very meat and potatoes. And one spouse or the other is not always polite enough or interested enough to care what the other may think, so outsiders assume they may need to clear it with both, and I can understand that. I mean, if I was in a couple, and the guy said Yes, we'll go to eat sushi with you, I would need to go eat somewhere else first, because I hate sushi.
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Post by happy2bchildfree on Mar 31, 2008 23:17:47 GMT -5
I think it can be a matter of consideration for one another. I wouldn't make plans for my husband without asking him first and he wouldn't make plans for me without asking me first. It's common courtesy.
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Post by Tabetha on Apr 1, 2008 1:41:40 GMT -5
It depends. Using the example of food, since my husband knows my taste very well (he does most of the cooking after all) as far as I'm concerned, he can feel free to negotiate on my behalf when discussing restaurant choices with our friends in my absence. (As far as his food preferences go, unlike me he's a true omnivore.)
However, when it comes to setting the actual date of the dinner, he knows that usually he should find out if I'm available or not first before promising my attendance. Of course this works both ways when I'm the one setting up a date with friends.
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Post by shell on Apr 1, 2008 11:45:44 GMT -5
Tabetha, that is how my husband and I operate, we know eachother well. As happy2b says, it is just basic consideration for one another- I agree with that. We compromise. I love sushi, and usually go out with friends who enjoy it - but although it is not my husbands fave food, we go out for sushi together once in awhile, just as I will go to his favorite place once in awhile too even though I don't loove it. That would be ribs. Shell
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Post by preraph on Apr 1, 2008 12:13:23 GMT -5
I would hope if two people were married they'd be attuned to each other's food preferences and nice enough to consider them, but I know MANY who don't. My part of the country, often men still think they get the final say and don't give a hoot about anyone else. I like a lot of foods, but each day I'm in the mood for something different, and because I've always been on my own, pretty much, I am very spoiled to going to where I want to go. Worse than most men, but at least I like variety!
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Post by Karlita on Apr 1, 2008 19:31:36 GMT -5
Why is it men in our part of the country think they get the final say on everything they and their wives do? I don't gripe if he buys computers/gaming systems/other misc. electronics whenever he wants but God forbid I want to get my nails done. I don't try to dress my husband a certain way, but if I let him pick out my clothes I'd look like a nun in public and a sleeper in private. I think it's the whole "love, honor and OBEY" part of the wedding vows, but thankfully I had the minister take that o-word out of the vows. ;D
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Post by kentuckykimmie on Apr 5, 2008 14:26:50 GMT -5
Down here it's kinda the opposite. It's the woman who usually gets called about a get together and ALWAYS, without exception, the woman who gets to or who is socially obligated to respond to and/or get gifts for weddings, showers, birthdays, Christmas, etc..... UNLESS she asks the man to do it. Even then it's still considered the woman's responsibility. NO southern man will take it upon himself to go out and get gifts for your family OR his, NEVER. If you think you can get away with just not doing it and leave it up to the man, one of two things will happen. 1) You will end up at walmart in the last minutes before the party or holiday in a hurry and scrounging for a gift, or 2) You will go to the event with no gift to give. I have had both happen to me in the past. This is a deep rooted and indoctrinated thing that southern men do, or don't do. I think some of them can learn, like my current husband, but you have to get their full attention, and communicate slowly and clearly that you expect them to go and get a certain gift and give them a time frame. They are actually quite good at doing it, but their mothers never made them and they never saw their fathers do it, so they don't have a clue. For a southern man, to just up and go gift buying, without being told or asked, for an event is as foreign and unnerving to them as accidentally walking into a ladies room. They are'ny any better with Christmas gifts, although they do seem to do ok with anniversary and their wive's birthday presents. So, i KNOW they are capable, they just have to get used to it. OH, if you DON'T end up with at least a card for his mother for her birthday, this WILL be blamed on the daughter in law, make no mistake about it.
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Post by preraph on Apr 5, 2008 14:47:21 GMT -5
You know, I had an eye-opening moment in a talk with an ex years after the breakup. Now, I am one of those women who falls in love with love, and so I pretty much know if I'm headed that way going in, and I know it's a weakness. Because of that, I worry that I am cutting the guy too much slack all the time and not setting proper boundaries - like being friendly to them when they show up unannounced. I always thought I probably did TOO much, and I remember with this ex he almost had freaked out when I got him a little birthday gift. So I thought, well, I better not scare him. But then when he divorced his second wife, who was a pushy and spoiled drama queen whose only real credit was she had taken cordon bleu cooking classes, I asked why he'd married her to begin with and then also added another girlfriend into the discussion, one he'd overlapped with me. I really had a hard time imagining what they had that I didn't. And he said the one that overlapped with me, she and her roommate (hmm) would invite him over for dinner and were just so nice to him; and then of course, the wife was a gourmet cook. I didn't cook for him back when we dated because I had very little money and not much to cook with, just a skillet and a sauce pan. I think I did breakfast a time or two. Anyway, I thought it was odd that he felt a small birthday gift was alarming but food was expected. And you know, to me, that's kind of a mommy thing, so maybe I dodged a bullet.
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Post by tinroofer on Apr 5, 2008 23:02:32 GMT -5
I call the hubster my social director....he makes all the plans and schedules things. He knows my schedule and what I like/don't like then he checks the 'master calendar' in the kitchen, where all appointments get written. Based on all those, he'll make plans then check with me to confirm. Works for me. I hate talking on the phone and dealing with wishy-washy people when trying to decide things. I get annoyed.
Plus, the MS really jacks with my memory and word recall sometimes.
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Post by shell on Apr 6, 2008 11:37:33 GMT -5
People are definitely influenced by the way they were raised, by observing their own parents relationship. For the good and bad, I see that in my husband, and also in myself sometimes (scary!). It is almost subconscious. But once aware of the connection, one can change. Some are more open to changing than others. I find with gift giving it is the same scenario here, the women are for the most part responsible. Preraph, I think it is a 'mommy' sort of thing. Back to the whole thing with some men wanting to be taken care of. Nothing worse that that, I think that you are right and it was better to let that one go! Shell
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Post by happy2bchildfree on Apr 6, 2008 13:46:41 GMT -5
I grew up seeing my mother going along with whatever my father wanted regardless of how she felt about it, then stuffing her anger about it. Stupid me thought that is what male-female relationships were about.
Whatever we see growing up is what we tend to view as "normal". I unfortunately had a lot of problems because of that way of thinking. It wasn't until I got into a 12-step program that I realized that my upbringing and my parents' relationship was neither healthy nor "normal".
When I realized it, I was able to break the cycle. I am so thankful for that.
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Post by preraph on Apr 6, 2008 13:53:23 GMT -5
That's good, Happy. It's not easy to stop even after you know it sometimes. We all have those blind spots. Of course, we're only taking the therapists' word for it what's "normal," too! Certainly the way your mom deferred to your dad and stuffed it was normal in most prior centuries.
P.S., what kind of 12-step was it that addressed that? I have to say I'm leary of any program that begins by telling you to accept it's out of your control and in God's hands. It wasn't one of those, was it?
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Post by kentuckykimmie on Apr 6, 2008 14:27:57 GMT -5
That's good, Happy. It's not easy to stop even after you know it sometimes. We all have those blind spots. Of course, we're only taking the therapists' word for it what's "normal," too! Certainly the way your mom deferred to your dad and stuffed it was normal in most prior centuries. P.S., what kind of 12-step was it that addressed that? I have to say I'm leary of any program that begins by telling you to accept it's out of your control and in God's hands. It wasn't one of those, was it? I AGREE! I think that if AA, for instance, can help an alcoholic stay sober then more power to them. However, i have a real problem with the..."I was completely powerless over alcohol", part as well as the ...."because of character flaws or personal defect" part. Then they load up on sugar laden donuts and chocolates at their meetings, and then wash it down with a caffeine catalyst. I wish more alcohol addiction related programs would address glucose and/or insulin imbalances, as there might be a connection. Maybe that "powerlessness" is really just an easily correctable physical abnormality.
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Post by happy2bchildfree on Apr 6, 2008 14:37:28 GMT -5
P.S., what kind of 12-step was it that addressed that? I have to say I'm leary of any program that begins by telling you to accept it's out of your control and in God's hands. It wasn't one of those, was it? The program is Codependents Anonymous. It's a 12-step program which deals with relationship issues. It's based on the program of Alcoholics Anonymous. The first step is admitting that your life isn't working and is out of control due to your issues. My life wasn't working, and had never worked. The "higher power" is a part of the program. Most people's "higher power is "God" but it can be anything you want it to be. I almost walked out when I heard about the higher power part, but was told that a 12-Step program is like a buffet--take what you want and leave the rest. Since everything else I had tried didn't work, I stayed. I chose to believe that the higher power was within me--I just needed some guidance to find my way. Kind of like being lost but once you have a map you can find your way on your own. Even as an atheist, the program worked for me when everything else had failed. I found it very helpful to be able to share my feelings in a safe environment--one where no one is allowed to comment, argue, give advice, etc. We LISTEN to each other's shares. I gained so much from that--and found the answers I'd been looking for, for such a long time. Many of those attending were also recovering from addictions, eating disorders and other issues. Some were there on advice from their therapists and addiction counselors. I honestly can't say HOW it works. I just know that it worked for me. I continued attending meetings until there was no longer one near enough for me to attend. I wish I still had a meeting to attend because I need a safe place to share, and because it is very easy to fall back into codependent behaviors. Codependents Anonymous changed my life.
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Post by preraph on Apr 6, 2008 16:17:54 GMT -5
Glad it worked out for you. I'm surprised there ISN'T one you could go to. Keep checking the internet for one. OR start one yourself.
Yeah, that whole thing that you also balked at just isn't right. Yes, the people feel powerless, but they're the only ones who can control themselves, so it seems kind of silly to tell them their God is the only one who has control of it. I know a lot of AA alcoholics, and I don't think having that as a handy excuse is the best thing. I do agree they have to face that it's something they may have been born with, because in some cases it is. But in the end, they are the one who has to alter their behavior, even if they can't eliminate the impulse. I've seen the program make a couple of my friends too tolerant of bad people and their actions, like criminals. To me, you aren't crazy OR out of control if you conceal the crime in stead of doing it out for everyone to see.
I know the AA also deals with codependency. I have an AA friend who is real codependent, and it hasn't changed that aspect of her after 15 years actively in the program. In fact, it may have made her worse. She just changed who she directed it at. However, it did help her stop alcohol, which is great.
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Post by shell on Apr 16, 2008 8:49:21 GMT -5
I really do find the AA program to be a cop out. I know it helps people, and that is not a bad thing, I guess any mindset that stops someone from drinking and destroying their family is a good thing.
I agree preraph, excuses and more excuses, like they had no control over themselves at all, no choices whatsoever. I think life is all about choices and taking responsibility for yourself. If you drink too much, that is something you choose to do.
I have strong feelings about this issue because my father claimed to be an alcoholic. He drank for many years, but then decided to join AA. And I heard all about the 'leaving things to a higher power' crap. Too late, would have been nice if he would have decided to take responsibility when I was younger, his absence and abuse were damaging. He didn't really ever face that aspect of it.
He chose to party, drink, act like a fool, be with his buddies - because he wanted to have fun - rather than be with his kids and hang out with the family. He obviously found family life boring and did not consider it a priority in his life - which was HIS own choice.
I went through a period where I drank alot too, and I liked it alot. I liked the loss of inhibition, being with my friends - but I did not shirk my responsibilities like my job responsibilities, or caring for my pets. And I did not make my friends or husband suffer either. I questioned my 'habitual' drinking at one time, I did go overboard a little, and when I felt I was done with it for my own reasons (bored, tired of being hungover on the weekend) I stopped. I chose the lifestyle, and decided to change the lifestyle. All my own choice. I did not continue to drink and get out of control with it and blame it on addiction. To me drinking is more habitual.
I am not implying habits are easy to break, they are not, just as changing your lifestyle is not easy. It sometimes requires loss of friends, some lonliness, and sadness while getting used to changes.
Seems like with AA they feel they are transferring responsiblity to God, and with them believing that, it eases their own conscience. Good point about tolerance. I see that in certain people. So is a serial killer able to take no responsibility for his/her actions, because it is 'god' who has control of what they do, not them? Apparently the compulsion to kill is something that is overwhelming to these criminals? Just as the compulsion to drink is overwhelming to some.
Happy2b, So glad the program worked for you, and that it changed your life and made you happy. I am not against any program, each to their own. I just question some of the concepts.
Thanks for listening to my rant...
Shell
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Post by preraph on Apr 16, 2008 11:06:52 GMT -5
I agree -- but trust is a big issue for me. I know a lot of it is because of who I fall for, which are artists, many of whom are just inherently not very focused except on art/music and, therefore, not reliable on a personal basis. Also, of course, it goes without saying if you date rock guys with girls lined up, you're in for a rocky ride. Too much temptation. But you know, though it was painful in the extreme at times, I wouldn't trade my life for anyone's. It's what I was supposed to be this life, and I probably chose it.
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Post by bbfreezone on Apr 16, 2008 12:09:47 GMT -5
So many adult children have no interest in their parents. I have no reason to assume that my fictional children would have any interest in me when I'm old.
A friend of mine has a parent in a nursing home. She is the only one of her many local siblings who visits said mother.
Not to mention the fact that children can pass before their parents.
There's no guarantee that you won't be lonely when you're old regardless of whether your childfree or a parent.
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Post by happy2bchildfree on Apr 16, 2008 18:55:25 GMT -5
Happy2b, So glad the program worked for you, and that it changed your life and made you happy. I am not against any program, each to their own. I just question some of the concepts. I don't agree with everything about the program, and it isn't for everyone. BUT--a big part of the program is about learning to take responsibility for your own actions. But to go so far as to say the program is cop out is a pretty unfair assessment because it does work for some people. When a person isn't willing to admit that they have a problem and start taking responsibility for their own actions, nothing is going to make them change.
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