Being old and lonley

[shell]

I know alot of people have kids because they are afraid of being alone when they are older. That they will have nobody to visit them, nothing to do without 'grandchildren' to keep them going and busy. We all know this is no guarentee. The kids may not live in the same area, or even in the same country for that matter.

I don't understand that fear. I am outgoing, and meet people quite easily. I also like to get involved in alot of different activities. So when I am older I just know I won't be all alone. Although I do value time to myself (probably more than the average person), I would not allow myself to become completely isolated.

There are always people in the world who are in the same situation as yourself, and you can always reach out and meet people. And as far as needing care goes, I will do my best to ensure I am able to hire someone, not burden one of my friends. Why do people feel they can burden the kids with all that responsibility? Why not take responsibility for yourself? Are people just not interested in being independant?

Shell

[ana]

Too many rely on others for their happiness. It is your responsibility to make yourself happy, not your spouse, not your children and certainly not your grandchildren. It's easier to blame someone else that create your own happiness.

Being surrounded by people doesn't alleviate loneliness.

I guess some people feel that others won't love them unless they HAVE too?

[shell]

Good point Ana, I never thought of it that way. I always thought this great urge some have to have as many kids as possible represented some sort of insecurity they have. That is very true.
Shell

[kentuckykimmie]

Someone can be in a room full of people and be lonely. On the other hand, someone can live and be mostly completely ALONE, and never be lonely. I can never remember feeling lonely in my life, in the context that most people consider the meaning of lonely. There are plenty of times that i yearn for mental stimulation and that sometimes comes in the form of human interaction. Most of the time however, i can find ways to entertain myself or keep myself occupied.

I would much rather be alone than have people around me who didn't really want to be there. If that happened it wouldn't matter how many people were around, i would still feel lonely, i think. I think it's pathetic the way some grand parents, mainly female, INSIST and are unswayed in their demand that certain holidays is when everyone HAS to come to their house. It's quite inconvenient for many of the grandchildren to always come, but they feel guilty if they do not. My Granny did this for YEARS, and still does. This year was the first time i didn't go because of the pain involved in traveling there after my neck/spine surgery. She was very upset when i told her i wouldn't be there, but she managed.

She had to throw in how she is nearly 90 and may not be there next year, and i felt compelled to reply, "Granny, i would hate it if you weren't there next year, but i would hate it more if i got into a wreck on the way there and ended up paralyzed from the neck down for the rest of my life because you wanted me there for Thanksgiving". She then said, "Kim, that's a point i can't argue with, but i hope you can make it down to see me when you are better". I guess i am no better than she because i just used the reverse guilt trip against that i have been well versed in from female relatives like Granny, for as long as i can remember.
I guess all of that training was good for something.

[felina34]

My opinion is that your old age is what you make it to be. OK there can be some health related unexpected events, but I know many elderlies who cope well with that and keep a good mood, and they don't count on their kids/grandkids to do it for them. I also know others who think that everything is due to them and that everybody should be at their service, those are the ones who are unhappy (and those I know in this last case all have many children and adult grandchildren).

When you don't want to be lonely, you're not. When you want to be lonely and enjoy it, you're not unhappy. There are still many things you can do if you are reasonably healthy, and I can't even imagine how it might be in 40-50 years from now.

But if you count on other people's good will and devotion to you for company, there's a good chance you'll end up feeling lonely and unhappy.

[Tabetha]

I was raised as an only child, so I'm very comfortable with being alone for long stretches of time. If it comes to it, all I really need to entertain myself are some good books, some music, and some method for recording notes, ideas, etc.

Hopefully that will come in handy if I end up alone when I'm elderly.

[preraph]

I'm like Tabetha. I'm happies with mostly alone time. Anyway, from what I've witnessed, the most needy/loneliness I see is from mothers whose kids have left home, and they're just pathetically needy about needing to talk to them - and of course, it's very rare young adult children want that much interaction after they leave the nest until maybe when they need a babysitter.

[happy2bchildfree]

kentuckykimmie said:

I can never remember feeling lonely in my life, in the context that most people consider the meaning of lonely.

I'm not sure what other people's context of loneliness is, but in my context I've sure had more than my share of it.

I enjoy solitude, but loneliness sucks.

[shell]

I am fairly social, but do need quite a bit of time alone too. I need it, and like it! Being 'alone' to me isn't 'lonely'. To me lonely means longing to be with someone, feeling deprived, wishing you were not alone, isolated from life. I have felt that way before, and it does indeed suck, but I have not felt that for a long long time. And it is not a fear I have. I do hope I can maintain independance forever....and won't have to hire any help until I am ancient! These people who want to be catered too all the time, and expect it, make me ill. I respect those who strive for independance and do their own thing.

Preraph, so true, the lonliest pathetic people I have seen are those 'empty nesters'. One friend of mine was slumped in depression the entire year her son was a Senior; knowing he would be leaving. Give me a break!! Adapt people!!!!

We used to rent part of our house to a College student. Most were sheltered and coddled my mom, and for most it was their first time away from home. One girl's mother used to call her every single morning to make sure she was up for classes. I mean REALLY! Then this same girl would call mom in the evening when her classes were over, every day. This mother was obsessive, I just can't believe the control she maintained over this girl from a distance. Too much! I remember her mother visiting one time, and going on and on about the empty nest.

Shell

[kentuckykimmie]

preraph said:

I'm like Tabetha. I'm happies with mostly alone time. Anyway, from what I've witnessed, the most needy/loneliness I see is from mothers whose kids have left home, and they're just pathetically needy about needing to talk to them - and of course, it's very rare young adult children want that much interaction after they leave the nest until maybe when they need a babysitter.

[/b]

HOW TRUE THAT IS!!!!!! My sister who has kids says that while she dearly loves our mother, that sometimes she drives her insane with this constant contact, telling her what's best for her kids, and surprise visits, and SHE lives over an hour away! Imagine if she was like my SIL who lives around the bend from her mother. She had lived in SC when she first married, and around the time she started talking about having children, her mother talked her into moving back home. She is in CONSTANT contact as in off and on every single day all day with her mother, when she isn't actually AT her mother's house. When i first married her son she tried to pull me into their loop with these constant get togethers and shopping events, and it took about of year of "no thankyous", before she slowed up asking.

I wouldn't mind it so much if i didn't feel it was a control issue, which it clearly is in this case. Her son likes his independence and she figured that once he was married to me, then she would reign him in by getting ME to do her dirty work. She showed visible disappointment when this did not happen. If we had kids i have NO doubt in my mind she would find ways to needle her way in, and she would probably win because i would let her just to get away from the kids because she would babysit! I am 45 years old and while she has slowed up TREMENDOUSLY, on occasion she still drops hints as if we "might" give her the grand daughter she never had.

[cnu5000]

The loneliest group of older people I see are old men whose wives have died before them....Some of them have children but the children don't make up for the loss of their wives.

The old women seem to be more social then the old men and when their husbands die they hang and with their female friends. Furthermore old women seem to look after each other more than the men do.

[kentuckykimmie]

cemoses said:

The loneliest group of older people I see are old men whose wives have died before them....Some of them have children but the children don't make up for the loss of their wives.

The old women seem to be more social then the old men and when their husbands die they hang and with their female friends. Furthermore old women seem to look after each other more than the men do.

This will come across as incredibly cruel, but keep in mind it's only an observation and not a judgement. Old men don't do as well because for the most part their wives have taken care of their every need from cooking their meals to telling them where their clean socks are. Most old men don't even know what is in the freezer, unless their wives have put their favorite icecream up front where they can see it. Old men don't even know their own kid's phone numbers or the birthdays of their grandchildren. Old men don't know what medication they are on or how much of a dosage they take because their wives divvy it out once a week in their little pill boxes if they don't just outright hand it to them with juice and a cookie, like my mother does for my father.

Old men may have handled the money or perhaps had the car serviced or worked on the lawns, but let's face it. How hard is it to write out a check when a bill comes in the mail or pay someone to cut the grass or change the oil? Then there is the matter of old men and impotence, but their still thinking there is some great purpose in taking little blue pills, buying penile implants, etc... so they can chase their wives around and pester the life out of them for sex that can unmercifully last for hours with all of those artificial methods on the market. My 90 year old granny who was widowed for the second time last told me about that nightmare. Here she is with osteoporosis, knee replacements and using a walker and she has to be chased around by a limp old man when all she wants to do is read and work in her garden.

Then there are the old women who spend the greater part of their 70-80's being caregivers for their ill husbands, which is usually what happens. Nursemaid 24/7, with no days off and no children or grandkids who bother to come help out. It's like they spent their youth on kids and their golden years on grandkids and sick husbands with no time for themselves. I guess on many levels, other than missing their spouse and how he used to be, and some late night loneliness, his death is probably a relief. That's what both of my grandmothers have relayed to me and i think it's very sad.

I think that if they had been childfree and were more in tune to one another rather than immersed in kids, it's likely that widows and widowers would grieve equally. That still doesn't make me want kids though. I'd rather grieve for the rest of my life during old age than be miserable for the years leading up to it.

[shell]

Kimmie, I have to agree. Although my own relationship is not this way (thank god), my parents, grandparents, and many others I know, do operate that way. Some women become complete control freaks, and 'manage' their husbands, as they do the children. I find it sort of pathetic. Some men even stop talking much, the wife does all the talking. Sad sad. The men almost become child like, hey?!

Without a doubt, I do believe CF couples have better relationships. It is also better to be alone, than to have kids that you devoted your entire life and 'self' too, and then they ignore you when you are old.

Shell

[happy2bchildfree]

shell said:

Some women become complete control freaks, and 'manage' their husbands, as they do the children. I find it sort of pathetic. Some men even stop talking much, the wife does all the talking. Sad sad. The men almost become child like, hey?!

What is it with some older women micromanaging their husbands' lives? I can't imagine why the men would put up with it, but they do. And it isn't just the childed older women who do it, either.

[kentuckykimmie]

Well, since i didn't get "killed" for my prior admittedly less than sensitive observation, I'll go all out and make another one.

While it's easy for women and younger men to sit back at a distance and say things like, "Why do these women do this..", or . " When i am old i would never let my wife take over like that...", I think what we need to remember, and can relate to, is that this type of behavior and lifestyle in old age is expected by society, accepted, and glorifed in it's own way, much like breeding. Old men appear to take great delight in making it known they can't do anything without their wive's "permission" or help, which is evidenced by all of the little jokes they drop amongst themselves about it. ie: " I better check with the boss". Also, i have witnessed my capable father stand dumbfounded in the kitchen and ask my mother, "Judy, do we have any milk?". Then when i say, "Daddy, its in the oven where do you THINK it is?", and then watch him laugh when my mother becomes visibly annoyed by the stupid question.

Then you have the women who are COMPLETELY in control from what their husband wears to what he eats. Have any of you ever had a father on a special diet? It's a NIGHTMARE for their wives. "Can i have a cup of icecream?", "Can i eat a bag or pretzels?", "Can i eat a ding dong bar?". The women seem to feel responsible for their husband's very life or death via their health choices. I can not IMAGINE having to monitor my huband's diet, what a HUGE rsponsibility that would be and it's completely uncalled for, IMO. Yet, while the women may complain about it, they still make the lists, buy the special foods, take the time to prepare and measure them out, etc..... Then, if they are like my father, after ALL that work, when her head hits the pillow at night he will be scrounging around in the kitchen boiling up red hots and eating a bag of Skidoodles.

I'd rather not even have a husband if all i really was to him was a second mother, nursemaid, cook, and maid. NO THANKS. However, like i said, it's expected and accepted and I doubt it will change any time soon.

[shell]

And it is not only older couples who do this either. I have seen this with some of my younger friends too. Maybe not to that extreme as the older couples, but still, the men seem to make no decisions whatsoever whether it be financial, travel, family, food, friends...and on and on.

When I see this sort of crap, I just thank my lucky stars that I have the relationship I do with my husband, we are best friends, and that is the way it should be - not mother-child. Ack!!

Have you noticed how the media portrays men as completely idiotic, incompetent morons? I find that offensive myself, I mean REALLY! I suppose it is something that is expected from society, another stereotype that is fueled by the media.

Shell

[preraph]

This happens when men won't organize and take care of things. Why women marry men like this is beyond me. But they've often grown up in some caretaker role, so it's natural to them, though they can and do still get sick of it. A friend of mine who has a smart husband and pretty good one just told me that he went on vacation on his own with some of his relatives, and that every time he does, there's some minor catastrophe, and there was. She's the organized one. Sometimes women begin early in a relationship doing too much for the man to impress him and then get stuck with it. I believe THOSE are the men you see who are happy about the situation. The ones who are incompetent rather than lazy (or both) are the ones who resent that they married someone smarter and are now letting her run their lives.

Personally, given the choice between me having to do everything or him calling all the shots, I'd choose neither. And so I have done.

[Tabetha]

shell said:

And it is not only older couples who do this either. I have seen this with some of my younger friends too. Maybe not to that extreme as the older couples, but still, the men seem to make no decisions whatsoever whether it be financial, travel, family, food, friends...and on and on.

When I see this sort of crap, I just thank my lucky stars that I have the relationship I do with my husband, we are best friends, and that is the way it should be - not mother-child. Ack!!

It seems to me that it's mostly women with children who tend to fall into the pattern of treating their husbands like just another kid they have to raise.

Seems horribly incestuous to me...how can you make love and create a real partnership with someone you've chosen to infantilize? Ugh.

[happy2bchildfree]

preraph said:

Personally, given the choice between me having to do everything or him calling all the shots, I'd choose neither. And so I have done.

I agree. As much as I dislike being alone, it would be preferable to either of the above situations. I couldn't respect a man who allowed himself to be treated like a small child, and a man who insisted on calling all the shots would be intolerable.

A marriage/relationship should be an equal partnership, not a dictatorship and not a parent/child relationship.

[shell]

preraph said:

Personally, given the choice between me having to do everything or him calling all the shots, I'd choose neither. And so I have done.

I have chosen to do neither. My husband and I are best friends, and have always maintained our own individuality and respect for each other's lives. These people who take control of their spouses/partners must be horribly insecure. I would go insane if I had to maintain control over someone's life. Spending too much time with anyone, including my husband, is something that would also drive me insane! In my opinion, time apart to have individual interests are crucial in any relationship. Or you get lost in someone else's life...just as mothers get lost in their children's lives. To me, it is all about trust.

Shell