The battle continues...

[juliepoo15]

I think I need to stop bringing up the I-don't-want-kids topic to hubby for now. It's starting to get rediculous. Well, at least this time I didn't piss him off by bringing it up in a restaurant...

Anyway, last night I sorta kinda brought it up again, trying to sell the fact that children are so expensive (he said $300,000 to raise, just showing he has NO IDEA...that doesn't even cover school!), we'll have so much freedom, we'll be able to own nice stuff and it won't get ruined...

Well, see, hubby has this thing about his 'stuff' because he grew up poor. He longs to have nice things and to keep them that way. He collects old bmx bikes that are worth a lot to him and says he'll have to lock them away from the kid 'til he's old enough. I'm thinking that's so stupid and selfish. Then he goes on to say that he wants to have someone to give his house/collections/nice stuff to when he dies, that he wants to give to to family. I argued that it doesn't matter who the hell gets his crap when he goes...it's just CRAP. A house, bikes, cars...whatever...just stuff! Then he said he didn't wanna talk about it anymore so I just left it.

*sigh*

I'm so scared. I don't know what to do. The man I married has so many issues....he's an admitted alcoholic. He knows he has to stop before I even consider children with him. He's also depressed and doesn't admit it. He said last night that, "life is a drag..." He also has the "I'll do it when I get to it" attitude, not at work, just at home. He's a great man in other ways, but he has so many problems. Adding kids to the mix, to me, is just NOT an option.

It's like I want to get this burden off my chest. I want my husband to understand where I'm coming from and he doesn't. He thinks it's a phase. WHY is being a dad so important to someone who seems to hate all of humanity (even more than I do, at least I like some kinds of people), thinks everyone is stupid and has the patience of a fruit fly?! I'm smart, I KNOW what I want and that's a relaxed life! Call me lazy, I don't give a crap! I don't wanna have kids! I don't wanna I don't wanna I don't WANNA!!! SOMEONE LET ME OFF THE HOOK!!

Okay, end of rant. I've got an appointment with the psychology dept at Kaiser in September. Not only am I gonna change my meds, I'm also gonna find a marriage counselor.

[kentuckykimmie]

Since he realizes he can't be a daddy till he stops drinking, I don't think you have any worries. That right there puts the ball in his court. While I realize some people do stop drinking, if he is still successful at work and functioning ok, he has a long way to go before he hits bottom, which is usually what it takes, even then a lot don't quit. I just might tell him that after he is sober for 2 years, then maybe. That buys you two years in ADDITION to ever how many years he lollygags around before he stops drinking, IF he does. By then, if his alcoholism progresses, which it usually does, your marriage might be over anyway, or one or both of you could be dead by then, who knows?

I am not trying to be negative, but we are'nt promised a tomorrow. Let him get sober completely and continuously for at least 2 years if it's so all fired important to him. My guess is that it isn't, he won't, and you are worried about nothing. If he is one of those who gets sober late in life, like when he's 60, you will be in menopause by then anyway. I'd enjoy the marriage that you now have, keep using birth control and quit worrying about something that likely will never even happen. JMO.

[juliepoo15]

I know you're not trying to be negative, you're just being realistic. So am I... Two years seems like a good idea. My friend was telling me to give him six months sober before we even consider it. That's not long enough.

There are major things that need to change and I don't think it'll happen. He is the way he is. If he's too tired when he gets home from work to do a thing but sit in front of the tv, I don't see him becoming father of the year and helping me as much as I'll need it. Some women are full of energy and enjoy having a career, kids and all that... I don't. I already live in a cluttered pig sty of an apartment and wonder if that's ever gonna change.

It's just my nature to worry things into the ground. This has gotten into my head and I can't get it out. I really should because I DO have time. NO ONE is going to make me do what I don't wanna do.

[kentuckykimmie]

I tend to run things into the ground too; "buy trouble", worry about things before they happen, then when something good happens I worry that something bad will probably happen to balance it out, hell....I can't even make a right hand turn without wondering that IF I had turned left, IF I would have happened up at a railroad track at the precise moment a train derailed and got hit by it, and that IF by NOT turning if I had challenged fate and caused a butterfly effect that will circle back around to me I have the unimpressive title of " Biggest worry wart who lived in two centuries".

So, I do understand. BTW, 6 months sober is not NEARLY long enough. Most people 6 months sober tend to have "dry drunks" where they have the same attitudes, anger, lousy attitude they do when they are actually drunk, and on top of that they are pissed that they can't drink. A dry drunk is often worse to be around than a regular drunk. Most rehabs consider 2 years a successful sobriety because it gives the person time to make and get used to the life changes that must follow when the alcohol stops flowing through their veins, if you want a happy sober person. Even a ten year sobriety is no guarantee, but the stats are better with a two year one.

Anyway, counseling is usually a good idea but it can backfire as well. As you can see I am a literal overflowing fountain of knowledge on dysfunctional marriages. Name a problem, I have probably seen it.

[happy2bchildfree]

Aug 11, 2008 18:18:47 GMT -5 juliepoo15 said:

I don't know what to do. The man I married has so many issues....he's an admitted alcoholic. He knows he has to stop before I even consider children with him. He's also depressed and doesn't admit it. He said last night that, "life is a drag..." He also has the "I'll do it when I get to it" attitude, not at work, just at home. He's a great man in other ways, but he has so many problems. Adding kids to the mix, to me, is just NOT an option.

:::::::::SHUDDER:::::::::::: He sounds just like my first husband, except that my ex abused drugs as well as alcohol.

He wasn't a bad guy, but just had so many issues. He wasn't willing to make any changes and I wasn't willing to waste my time waiting for him to decide to do so. For me, life is too short and time too precious to waste staying in a situation like that.

My solution was to leave him and never look back. I felt so empowered when I did it. That was over 25 years ago, and I've never had a moment's regret that I made the choice I made.

[mar]

Hmmmmmmmmmmm...... IF he quits drinking for two yrs. and you decide he would make a great daddy > sleepless nights, poopy diapers, snotty noses, AND not having time to spent quality time with you, let alone NO exra money to buy nice things, would probably be enough to start him drinking again, IMO.

Does he need a wake -up call or what ?!!!

I can feel your frustration..

You better get your tubes tied. I certainly hope you don't need hubby to sign the papers in your part of the country.

[juliepoo15]

Gettin' my tubes tied...not a bad idea, mar. At this point, I'm really thinking that he's not one I want children with. Even his genes are a problem. I mean, between the two of us we've got alcoholism, depression, anxiety...

It's going to take a while to get through these problems, IF we can. I'm really okay with not ever having children so I don't care how long it takes. We need to put an effort into our marriage before we give up completely... But if it doesn't happen, it's not the end of the world.

I'm so glad I found this site...

[juliepoo15]

So...things with the hubby are looking better lately. I've made it clear that we have other problems to solve and the kid thing is off the table...for now. Yea. I know... But I have to give it time. Counseling is going to happen soon (have an appointment by myself on Sept 12) so we can bring the kid thing up again with a mediator in the room. We haven't had any incidents/arguments lately and that's good. For now I'm going to keep it mostly to myself because we have all the time in the world. I have to take that time to become confident in my decision.

[kentuckykimmie]

Aug 25, 2008 16:51:27 GMT -5 juliepoo15 said:

So...things with the hubby are looking better lately. I've made it clear that we have other problems to solve and the kid thing is off the table...for now. Yea. I know... But I have to give it time. Counseling is going to happen soon (have an appointment by myself on Sept 12) so we can bring the kid thing up again with a mediator in the room. We haven't had any incidents/arguments lately and that's good. For now I'm going to keep it mostly to myself because we have all the time in the world. I have to take that time to become confident in my decision.

While I loathe to burst your "see a counselor" happy bubble, I feel compelled. It's of vital importance that you find the right counselor as anyone with an associate's degree can put that sign over their door. I actually went to one with a PHD in psychology (court appointed) who deemed ME a more fit mother than my moomiefied, RN, psychotic. moo to 3 kids, breast feeding advocating, ex wife to my ex hubby's wife. I was VERY honest in my CF status, so I don't know if he was trying to punish me or ruin my life, or if I was actually considered better "mom" material, or what. Actually, it's a scary thought as to why that SOB "PICKED" me over her for any such nonsense as custody when I CLEARLY told him I did NOT want to raise that kid.


I would be very leary of any non CF counselor, especially one with a child's interest in his/her heart as opposed to the adult patient, as in the "famblee therapists" often are. I saw ANOTHER therapist several years later and she basically told me that, "I have a purpose in life now, which is raising the child that I was "lucky" enough to get". The WHOLE WORLD is kidcentric and therapists are not excluded. Since you are in California, you may have a decent chance. If you loved in the South, I'd pretty much say that you were fukkked, in the unbiased non kidcentric therapy department.

[juliepoo15]

HAHAHAHA!!!! Again, I love your honesty...

Thank you, I know EXACTLY what you are talking about. I am also leery of counselors because we had a terrible 'couples counselor' when I was going through that baby s.hit with my ex. The idiot was actually in the same situation herself, dating a man with a kid. She advocated that it, "wasn't so bad having the kid every other weekend..." Yea, right. Until it changes, as things inevitably do in life... My favorite line, the one that really made me think she was a total quack was, "You may never find someone who loves you as much as he does..." Talk about retarded!!!

The prospect of finding another idiot couselor is actually holding me back a bit. I've been putting it off because I have some anxiety over it. I'm not floating in a bubble...I am aware that I will probably have to go through a couple of people before I can find a competent one that fits. I've been to lots of therapy in my lifetime and I've had to do the same with individual counselors. Above all, I try to think positive and have the "who knows, I may get lucky" attitude. But I'm not gonna waste a whole lotta money trying to find out.

I like to think that if I stand my ground and have enough confidence, I can convince the people who are important to me about my decision. I have to keep repeating to myself that no one can make this decision for me. Yea...that's my back up plan in case counseling isn't gonna work. Either way, I have to get my facts straight and that's why I come here.

[smfoster]

You should try to see an LICSW- a licensed social worker as your counselor. Social workers have less training in "traditional" therapy and more training in how the world really operates (i.e. how raising children can be a mental, physical, emotional, financial, etc. strain on a relationship). Social workers have often see the dark side of life that many people don't want to acknowledge, so they are good people to give unbiased opinions that take into account the entire picture. Also one of the social work code of ethics is the patient's right to self determination, so that should be a guiding force in their conversations with you.

[juliepoo15]

Thanks, smfoster, I didn't know that! More training in how the world really works, huh? Yes, that could make a huge difference. And the patient's right to self determination...that's a great one. If I have a problem with a counselor or anyone else, I can just stand up and say that! "HEY! I have a right to self determination, beeyotch!"

[smfoster]

LOL! If more of my clients were really invested enough in themselves to say something like to me, I'd be one happy lady!

[preraph]

I think by far your best bet is a MALE counselor, because men aren't as childcentric. Go ahead and ask if he has children when you call to check him out. Try to find one that doesn't. This will probably mean a young one, of course...

[juliepoo15]

Got another hint in the wrong direction from hubby this weekend. It keeps going back and forth. I think he understands, and then it's back to his own selfish needs.

We were at H@@ters and I complained about the kids in the restaurant. You know the drill, stupid parents having get togethers with kids at the wrong, should be adult only places...like H@@ters.

Once again, I don't remember how we got to the point of the kid convo...I just remember him saying, "I want kids, I'll be a great father..." We were having fun and the convo was casual, so as not to embarrass him in a restaurant like I always do. Since we weren't in the right place, he said he didn't want to talk about it. I left it 'cause I didn't want another argument. He wants them "when we get a house", which will be god knows when. I will continue to stall him and be on my bc...and pray I'm also infertile.

I made it to a the nurse in the psychiatry dept of my insurance. I told her about my issues and reiterated that the main concern right now is that I don't want kids. I said I preferred a male therapist, let's see how it goes. If she doesn't refer me to a male, I can always have her go fishing again... But she was all about family, having her own two kids. Saying things like, Oh yes, you'd better get the problems ironed out in your marriage before you consider kids...." and "Kids put a lot of stress on a marriage, but you learn to deal with it." OR NOT. LADY. So we'll see who she refers me to. I just kept saying, "I'm don't think I want kids, I'd rather help animals..." She probably thought I was nuts, but OH WELL. I'd better get used to it.

*sigh*

[happy2bchildfree]

Evading the issue isn't going to make it go away or solve anything. It's going to have to be dealt with sooner or later. Better dealt with sooner, so a decision can be made and you can each get on with your lives whether together or apart. BTDT, I know what I'm talking about.

[mar]

I've suggested this to you before ~



TUBAL LIGATION (she screams at the top of her lungs) !!!!!!

[preraph]

Yeah, your man has his mind made up he wants children. You need to deal with it. It will only fester and cause problems -- and I would by no means expect him to stay in the relationship, nor should he. He sounds certain. He MAY understand your feelings, but that won't change his. You need to face it and move on before you "accidentally" end up pregnant. If you give in, you will resent it and if he does, he will. It's a bad foundation.

[juliepoo15]

Oh man. Thanks you guys. You're kicking me in the head with reality. I AM dealing with it right now, really I am. I'm just scared to push the issue. I think that part of me is kinda checking out of this relationship because I'm really not sure it's gonna make it. But I have to try counseling first. I haven't chosen a final therapist yet. The one I went to on Friday was just the nurse. I'm hoping she gives me the correct referral, if not I can try again.

I know I got myself into this. I honestly thought that he was as ambiguous and/or not really wanting kids as much as I was a few years ago. He did say a few times, "We're not having kids..." Granted, that was usually when I was freaking out over something... But still, he gave me the idea. But I know we should have discussed it thoroughly before we got married.

Mar, I'm going to make a gyno appointment for next month. I will begin discussing other bc options then since it IS about time I get off the pill. I don't want to be on it too much longer.

I feel like I just want to give up... But I won't. Yet.

[happy2bchildfree]

Sept 16, 2008 11:39:49 GMT -5 preraph said:

Yeah, your man has his mind made up he wants children. You need to deal with it. It will only fester and cause problems

Yeah. I made the major mistake of trying to evade the issue with my ex, then finally one day he asked me point blank about when I would be ready to have kids. I told him that I wasn't having kids--not now, now ever.

I had told him that I never wanted kids when we first started dating. He said he was OK with that. Then, as soon as we were married, he flip-flopped on me and starting saying he wanted kids. Turned out he'd wanted them all along and thought I would change my mind...

Of course he started in that if we had a kid, he'd change--no more drinking and using and non-stop partying, no more staying away from home as much as possible, etc. Yeah, right. Those changes have to take place BEFORE a kid enters the picture.

The therapist we saw was wonderful. She was honest and said that maybe the other issues could be worked out, but as far as the kid issue, there could be no compromise--either we had them or we didn't, and if we weren't on the same page with that issue, we were better off going our own ways. I had told him the same thing but he wouldn't accept it hearing it from me.

We remained together for a few more months and that was it.

Even if I had wanted a kid, I wouldn't have brought one into that situation. He was drinking and using, and all-around irresponsible. Hardly good traits for parenthood. Of course he conveniently omitted this information with the therapist.

I'm just glad things came to head when they did, rather than dragging it out and investing more time and emotional energy into a situation that had no chance of working out.